I've been there and done that. I had a C3 Corvette in the '90s and '00s with a big block. My two happiest days with it were the day I bought it and the day I traded it for a V-Rod. It was stone reliable too. See, when GM came out with the LS engines, there was never any more need for these old cast iron boat anchors.
RossD wrote: In reply to NickD: You can buy a 2014+ Silverado with the 6.2 small block and get 420 hp, 460 lb-ft and get a highway 21 mpg in a 2wd truck. Did I mention the warranty?
So, I could spend $50 grand to get what my 8.1 liter Suburban does for $6 grand total. I see.
Sorry, I switched from expensive-to-maintain diesel to quiet, easy and cheap-to-maintain gasser big block torque for towing. The diesel rigs that did better were all 3-4 times the buy-in cost and STILL have the maintenance costs associated with diesel. And the LT trim Suburban is a nice place to spend the miles as well, even for back seat passengers.
As for cars, sure you can get similar hp from small blocks. For more money, and they still don't have the big, flat torque curve that big blocks have stock.
As for costs, this old Mustang:
Had a $1500 460 (all in, including mods), that was bored to 466cid, made 500 hp and 700 lb ft of torque with the SCJ heads ported to remove the HUGE lump in the exhaust port (the stock 460 is massively choked down both in the porting and the exhaust system) and the factory SCJ cam on top of a 10.5:1 compression ratio. And it was set up for autocrossing, not drag racing, but was still damn quick on the Yokohama A008 RSII tires (running 10s on 2.73:1 gears)
Chris, you make some fantastic claims, but where are the dyno sheets and timeslips?
93gsxturbo wrote: Chris, you make some fantastic claims, but where are the dyno sheets and timeslips?
yeah, I saved those from 25 years ago to prove to somemone on the then nonexistent internet that I know what I'm talking about. IDGAF if you believe me or not.
I keep seeing this statement, "you can go to the junkyard and grab a 5.3 truck motor for cheap". berkeleying where? I go to the junkyard very often here in SoCal. Those trucks with LS engines usually come in without an engine. Everyone knows (now) that you remove the drivetrain and sell it on CL for thousands instead of letting the junkyard give you $800 for an entire truck.
Complete 5.3 engines are going for $1500 with accessories and (maybe) harness. Lowest I've seen was $1300 but was missing a few things.
6.0's going for at least $2500. Something like $3500 with the auto trans ecu and harness.
LS1/2/3, LOL.
Add in a T56, forget about it.
The days of the cheap LS motor swap are over. It's a trend, automotive trends make things cost more.
And if you do find an LS motor in the junkyard, best believe it'll be gone within an hour.
In reply to yupididit:
Detroit area there are plenty going for $500-$700 on car-part.com, I'm seeing good sub 200k mile 4.8s around $400. I assume 6.0 and anything aluminum block is pulling big money. I have never seen a good LSx at a pick and pull though. How far out are you looking? Junkyards are crap in my immediate area too.
You don't need a T56, any trans that bolts to a SBC/BBC bolts to a LSx with the right flywheel/flexplate (which is some cheap production truck part).
SoCal, all the wacers steal them all.
My local car-parts.com search shows multiple 6.0 liter truck engines less than $1000.
93gsxturbo wrote: Chris, you make some fantastic claims, but where are the dyno sheets and timeslips?
500hp from a mild 460 isn't a fantastic claim, it's more like a bare minimum to be expected.
yupididit wrote: I keep seeing this statement, "you can go to the junkyard and grab a 5.3 truck motor for cheap". berkeleying where? I go to the junkyard very often here in SoCal. Those trucks with LS engines usually come in without an engine. Everyone knows (now) that you remove the drivetrain and sell it on CL for thousands instead of letting the junkyard give you $800 for an entire truck. Complete 5.3 engines are going for $1500 with accessories and (maybe) harness. Lowest I've seen was $1300 but was missing a few things. 6.0's going for at least $2500. Something like $3500 with the auto trans ecu and harness. LS1/2/3, LOL. Add in a T56, forget about it. The days of the cheap LS motor swap are over. It's a trend, automotive trends make things cost more. And if you do find an LS motor in the junkyard, best believe it'll be gone within an hour.
There was a running/driving 4th gen camaro that traded hands on this board in the past year via the $20xx classifieds.
I also had a 5.3l with brand new 224r cam, flashed ECU, wiring harness, and 4l60 with a fresh rebuild that I sold for $1600 in the past year.
Deals are out there, but maybe not as common place as they once were. I think the best scenario is to buy a running vehice, take what you want, and sell/scrap the rest.
pushrod36 wrote: Deals are out there, but maybe not as common place as they once were. I think the best scenario is to buy a running vehice, take what you want, and sell/scrap the rest.
I've seen at least one crashed 5.3 van on CL with a good engine and trans for under $1k, and I don't look hard or often. Or you find somebody parting out a crashed truck/van on CL, you usually even get to see it run in that case.
i love my half ton short bed 454 5 speed truck and you can't pry the smile off my face when i'm done driving it. putting one in the chevelle too, because it really should have one. i love LS engines, and i know what they can do, we have a bunch of them. but if it's something i could care less about mpg's in and is just a toy or around town vehicle, i love torque and will be happy with a big block.
In reply to Kenny_McCormic:
Michigan?
Have fun with that in SoCal. I was helping a friend look for one in the low $ last year. Even when we found some on car-part.com we'd get there and they'd want a core out extra $700 for harness, ecu, accessories. Like I said, the drifters and wacers grab em at asking price all day here so they're almost impossible to find cheap.
In reply to yupididit:
Let me ask you this, can you build an aluminum head 350 with a 700hp bottom end for $1500? If you can't, it's still a good deal, just not a great deal.
RossD wrote: That is true, the nomenclature is silly. How about the typical old school ones then? Would you pay the extra money (and weight) to play with them in a sports car setting? So are they just for drag racing now?
Spotted on another forum:
I am trying to find a good cam for my 426 crate hemi. This motor is going in a AMC Gremlin that I will be using for autocross, street driving and maybe a couple 1/4 mile passes. It will have a Jerico 4spd, Winters quick change, Stage V single plane dual quad setup and stock 9.0:1 compression.
Hemi powered Gremlin with a Winters, a Jerico, dual quads.... for autocross.
NickD wrote:RossD wrote: Is the GM 8.1 the old school big block or is it a bored out LSx style block?The 8100 Vortec was a completely clean sheet design, sharing few external parts with the old MKIV big blocks or the LSx family. Interestingly, these were available with the Allison transmission behind them in the 2500s and 3500s. Drove one once and it didn't feel a whole lot different than a 6.0L, just the fuel gauge went down a helluva lot quicker.
Having had nearly identical GM 2500HD trucks with the 6.0/4L80E and the 8.1/5-speed Allison1000, yep, they sure feel like they drive the same. But driving them both the same, with the same aggressive tires on them and no trailer, I got just less than 12mpg with the 6.0 and averaged 10mpg with the 8.1. If you floor it, ouch, the 8.1 will suck it. But frankly I almost never have to stick my foot in it compared to the 6.0, which required frequent high revs. The extra gear in the Allison trans helps too. Later models got a 6-speed Allison with an additional higher cruising gear.
Towing is another matter. With the 6.0 anything more than a Miata on a custom built trailer impacted the mileage. With the 8.1 most trailers don't hurt it. Towing a 12' tall, 30' long enclosed WILL knock the mileage down to about 8.5mpg.
The control systems and some sensors are the same as the LS engines. The engine mounts and exhaust location are the same as the old school big blocks, which makes it easy to swap one of these into any other GM product that every came with a 454/396.
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