Article suggestion, no idea, no make that demand!

I just want to thank everyone involved for not selling the Berkeley out.

In response to Joe Gearin, hubris didn't pertain to staff.

Gary wrote: In response to Margie, I read a lot of car magazines and there are some standard bearers out there. Sadly not CM or GRM. I'm a charter subscriber to CM and have subscribed to GRM off and on since the mid nineties. I find the content to be less today. Sorry to be over the top on this, I realize everybody works hard and we appreciate that. We want you to grow and succeed. But take a look at the magazines from 10 years ago. They were better than today.

Great idea. February 04 GRM featured a 20-page cover story titled "Is Drifting the Future of Motorsports in the U.S.?"

I'm going home now. My hubris is tired. And btw, I am staff. I had just wrapped up an afternoon of entering invoices and proofreading stories when I happened on this little episode. (Oh, and when I stop responding to you? That's not pride. That's recognition, thanks to your "staff" comment, that you seem to have another agenda/bias, and it will do no good to feed the troll further.)

Margie

Gary---- we all work very closely together here, it's kind of all for one, and one for all.

And because we actually give a damn--- I went and dug out the March 2005 issue of CMS. Sorry--- I think you are dead wrong about CMS getting worse. The 2015 issue has more pages, more content, better photography and a far better more readable layout. As a bonus, you get a free calendar with the 2015 issue as well. Sorry--- I just can't agree that CMS has gotten worse.

GRM IMHO has been a kickass magazine for a long time now. It was my favorite magazine far before I came to work here in 2002. Looking back, the April 2005 issue was a pretty good issue. However, with reviews on the new Corvette, and our (then brand new) SRT-4 project--- it was hardly all low-buck. The page count is the same then as it is now--- although our photography has improved pretty drastically.

We appreciate constructive comments on how we can do better. I can't agree that we are getting worse though. I do agree that we can always to better, and we work very hard every single day towards that goal.

Gary wrote: In response to Joe Gearin, hubris didn't pertain to staff.

Everyone here is staff. There's no one here with the code to the alarm system too important to take out the trash, or too irrelevant to not be a part of the core team. In short, if we fail to meet someone's expectations, it's not because we think our E36 M3 does't stink, it's far more likely because we didn't trust our instincts enough to produce the content we thought we should.

I would also point out the irony of discussing with us how disconnected we are, on the message board that we're participating in. If you like, we can set up a bank of microphones with news channel logos on them for you to cream "I'm being censored!" into.

In short, if what we're doing isn't up your alley right now, brother, I'm sorry. Sorry we couldn't meet your expectations better and produce the product you wanted. I thought the second season of Walking Dead sucked, so I stopped watching it. Sometimes we're disappointed by things we had high expectations for. I'm glad you had high expectations for us and maybe one day your expectations and our output will be closer aligned.

But can it with the hubris crap. Either that or produce some evidence and I'll personally walk into their office and ask why they were a dick to a reader.

On the point of this topic: I think this would be an excellent article.

On the point of where this topic has gone: I find myself reading less of the issues. However, I think it is because I am growing away from motorsports. I still read the editorials, but frankly, I don't see myself going to Nationals in the next two years, so the more in depth articles are not good for me anymore. It hurts to say, but a major publication would likely be a better magazine for me as I'm more interested in new car reviews now; GRM doesn't have many of those because it isn't the point of the magazine.

I won't stop subscribing to the mag, because I like the authors, the owners, the calendar, and the challenge, not to mention this board, but I am growing away from it. Same thing happened with hockey, same thing happened with golf, and eventually I expect I'll stop reading about guitars too.

Margie mentioned a 20 page article from GRM ten years ago. Yes! That's what I'm talking about. Maybe drifting wasn't a good topic for you to use as an example. We know that drifting was a flop with this crowd. But the detailed content was in that article, wasn't it?

Joe Gearin also disagrees with me on whether or not the magazines were better 10 years ago. Meaningful content means just that. More topics and less detail doesn't equal more content. You are entitled to defend the "Cliff's Notes" magazines CM and GRM have become. But if you can't see that the magazines aren't as good as they once were, I won't say any more about it. Good luck.

As far as hubris is concerned, that was directed towards one individual, and is based on my impression after reading 20 years of columns. There's a lot of self promo in those columns, and what I interpreted as "bragging" about accomplishments and famous people he hangs out with. Also from numerous personal contact at events, I always felt it was a chore for him to talk to a mere reader ... and once even heard him make a cheap wisecrack joke behind my back about what I was saying as I was discussing a Volvo P1800 with Andy Reid at an event a few years ago. He even got a few laughs. When you do those things, people remember. So JG, that's my basis and you may confront him if you'd like. I doubt it would change things. Funny, after 50+ years of reading car magazines I've never felt that way about another writer, editor, or publisher including controversial guys like Brock Yates, William Jeanes, Leon Mandel and others. I definitely did not mean Margie, Joe, David, JG or Gary Hunter when I used the word. Also, when I meet the guys from VM and Hemmings at events they're extremely open, cordial and personable. That matters.

You can please some of the people some of the time, never all of the people all of the time.

I once worked for a guy who would tell a customer to their face, "I'm sorry that I cannot fix your car to your satisfaction. Please find another mechanic." He could do this cause he is one of the best at what he does. I feel the same way about GRM. Good bye Gary.

In reply to Gary:

Create a rival publication/forum written how you think it should be written and featuring things that resonate with you.

I'm an earthworm motorsports enthusiast (below Grassroots) so I'm not really interested in reading about how awesome it is to have millions to throw at a racing effort.

I'd rather read about GRM finding a craigslist castoff, fixing it and flipping it for a profit. Something more realistic than "wheeler dealers". But they would probably look like they were jumping on the Opposite Lock/Jalopnik bandwagon. Or more LeMons/ChumpCar features, I love that stuff! Or even a low buck drift car, roundy-round car or bracket drag racer. I'm all about junkyard speed tricks.

But, I'm a machinist after all. I have no idea how to successfully run a magazine but, GRM obviously does. I'll continue to read GRM as long as they continue to print it.

Yes, important words: " as long as they continue ..."

The $20XX budget builds are actually my favorite articles, along with the project cars features (I'm always amazed at the weird and wonderful cars the GRM staff drags home, especially for the bargain prices they pay.

Gary - What's your exemplar publication?

I'm on my second 10 year subscription (I think), and started getting CM too. I think both magazines' look, artwork, and layout have progressed immensely over the last 10 years. I like the features on cool track cars, the better $20xx builds, and the current project fleet is pretty fun.

I thought the 818 buildup was sweet, how about a Cobra kit for CM and a runoff between the two at the Challenge?

I agree with The_Jed too, an intro to roundy round and build up of a dollar stock or even a Legends oval track car would be really sweet, so would a bracket race car.

I'd still like to see more happen with motorcycles too, but I think the overall readership won't be as interested... Just how fast is a modern superbike around VIR compared to the UTCC cars though? Iron & Air is close to what I'm looking for, but is more artsy the greasy for lack of a better analogy.

Man, this got ugly in a hurry. I hope the staff keeps in mind for every one loud naysayer there's thousands of happy customers.

I love this magazine. I bought three separate subscriptions this winter, for myself, and family members. I think more people need to know how awesome this little corner of the automotive world is.

stuart in mn wrote: The $20XX budget builds are actually my favorite articles, along with the project cars features (I'm always amazed at the weird and wonderful cars the GRM staff drags home, especially for the bargain prices they pay.

^ This. I started reading GRM for Challenge coverage. I continue to read GRM for that type of low buck, high skill information. But I get it's not everyone's thing as shown in this thread. GRM does a pretty good job of trying to balance it. You can't give everyone what they want all the time.

Tim, Margie et al. Don't change a thing. The formula obviously works for you and you've proven you know what you are doing. Do I read the whole thing, no, but I never did, I have a short attention span. I'd love a magazine that was nothing but fabrication and home builds, and you'd loose about 90% of your readership if you made that magazine. The proposed article at the start of this thread has zero interest to me and I wouldn't read it. But obviously others here would. Like I said, balance, you seem to do a darn good job at it. Don't let a few whiners tell you otherwise :)

unevolved wrote: Man, this got ugly in a hurry. I hope the staff keeps in mind for every one loud naysayer there's thousands of happy customers. I love this magazine. I bought three separate subscriptions this winter, for myself, and family members. I think more people need to know how awesome this little corner of the automotive world is.

Here here! GRM is the only automotive magazine to which I still bother to subscribe.

At least 2/3 of the magazine usually has something of interest for me.

As for the other 1/3?

Do I care about drifting or rally cross? Not particularly. Can I learn something nifty that I can apply to my builds by reading about a rally cross car? Maybe. Can I expand my general motorsports knowledge so that me and my idiot gear head friends have something new to discuss at our next night out over beers? Probably. And if not? Well, worst case, it's still decent material to peruse while sitting on the can.

Keep up the good work guys and gals.

I think it's a good idea for an article, but there are a couple of other publications that do these sort of stories (Racer and MotorSport to name two) and it's not really grassroots as many (most) of the pro cars were from big budget teams, even back in the day. I'll admit I don't read every issue cover to cover anymore, but GRM and CM are the only auto magazines I subscribe to and I don't see that changing in the future.

Gary, i've met "the staff" and what you describe is really out of character for anyone associated with GRM. Maybe it was just a misunderstanding, but even if what you say happened actually happened in that way, I figure anyone who started a magazine from scratch and has managed to not only have that magazine survive but thrive for 30+ years without selling out to a megacorporation or compromising their values has earned the right to display whatever "hubris" you deem unacceptable. Anyway, there's not another magazine on the planet that does what these guys do, and I hope they keep doing it for a long time.

What's up everyone? GRM-ruining, new-BMW-driving arrogant snob here.

I'm, uh, sorry? I didn't realize I was ruining everything.

We've always written about new cars. They are and always will be a part of our scene. They aren't for everything, but niether are old beaters. We try to make everyone happy.

And, currently apart in my one-car garage is the project Focus, which I'm also writing about. I'm doing the clutch myself because I can't afford to have a shop do it. And I'm scrambling to finish because there's a Rallycross next weekend that I'm planning to attend.

I think we keep a fairly good balance, though I will concede that a little more tech wouldn't hurt. Of course, you can never have too much horsepower, either....

One important thing to remember is that changes take 6-12 months to work their way into the magazine. There is a lot of lead time in publishing. I think you all will really like what's on the horizon. And I say that as both the new BMW driver and as the college kid with a Focus.

I think the magazine is every bit as good now as it has always been. I've always been a huge fan of the grassroots content, and I don't think F1 cars really appeal to the bulk of the readership.

To 06HHR, you misread what I wrote. I've also met members of "the staff" at events. Only one of them wasn't open, cordial, and personable, and that was on several occasions, same person. Maybe that was a misunderstanding but that's unlikely. (But then again I'm not a celeb like Sterling Moss or Jay Leno, or a potential ad buyer).

Edited after I did read (and got my coffee)

Where do I start?

GRM is the only magazine I've ever subscribed to that I read 90% of (I can't really say I go "cover to cover" in all honesty). I'm not about to start bitching about the 10% I skip every once in a while (I'm not the only one reading the magazine, therefore it's understandable that I'm not interested in everything they publish). It's got to be a helluva balance juggling builds, current Motorsports events, cheap tech tricks, tire comparisons, buyers guides, etc. Performing that act deserves a lot more credit than they get and I think they've done so without sacrificing quality. I don't have a magazine from 10-years ago, but I can say I read more content included now than I did when I got my first magazine in the mail.

If you get a subscription on sale it's like $10 (what, $17 if you miss the sale?). I'm hard pressed to buy a 6-pack for that much. It's a damn steal, AND they offer this steal without the seemingly obligatory penis pill advertisements that populate so many other magazines.

On to my free trial magazine (all those years ago): It's tech tips, and tire guide saved me more money than I've spent on subscriptions! True story: I was going to order Bridgestone Potenzas for my RX-7 to run CSP at the local autocrosses, but in the tire test the Falken Ziex they tested came in .1 of a second slower. That saved me $120 a tire!

It didn't stop there either. Thanks to the "How to's" I can now powder coat in my garage, I'm about to try my hand at welding, I've refreshed old parts, and the list continues. I realize that people out there may already know all this stuff, but it's important to me. And the people who do this regularly on a "challenge budget" (be it $500 or $201x) are my heroes! I would love to be able to pull the stunts they do!

This really is the only motorsports magazine I would ever consider subscribing to. Then there's the people on the forum (yeah, it's not a requirement to subscribe to be in the forum, but still...). I'm actually really surprised the thread topic degenerated into what it's become. That's a bit disappointing.

Anyhoo. Gary: You seem very unhappy with the magazine, unhappy with the people involved (or at least one person), and unhappy about what they're doing to fix it for you. Why not just cancel the subscription and move on instead of dragging the magazine and its employees through the mud?

GRM: Place my vote in "dont change". I'd pay more for less.

Oh, and someone mentioned GRC car:

I actually rode around the Daytona circuit with Emma Gilmour in a Hyundai Veloster a few months ago. This wasn't just a pace lap, either—I was in full gear and we were 6 feet in the air at times.

What struck me wasn't the suspension, wasn't the drifting, wasn't anything but the raw, crude, barely-contained power that these cars make. We launched on asphalt, and it really did hurt for 2 seconds—then we were at 60 mph and she backed off. I mean, it was like the flying saucer at the carnival. My eyes hurt, I could only see the cage's halo bar, and my arms were pinned to whatever was behind me (I remember it being warm). I tried to brace myself for the upcoming braking zone, but my legs were glued to the front of my seat. There's simply no moving any appendage when a GRC car is floored.

Once we'd rounded the first asphalt corner (It felt like a WRX on slicks) she started accelerating again. The gears are all straight cut, so each shift sounds, feels, and looks like the driver is whacking the transmission with a 5-lb. sledgehammer. Every. Single. Shift. I'm amazed at the abuse these cars can take. We drifted around a few dirt corners (on slicks). Then, she made a ton of minor corrections on the straight.

"WTF," I thought. "Why does she care about exactly where she is on this straight?!" I peeled my eyes down from their now-default position staring at the halo bar, and nearly peed myself. There was a giant jump in front of us. We were still accelerating.

Now, let me say: I hate flying. I'm fairly used to it at this point because I fly so much for work, but it still gives me butterflies. I legitimately panicked—who expects a "journalist ride-along" to actually, you know, JUMP?!

I started fear-flailing, which didn't actually accomplish anything—we were still accelerating, so my limbs were still pinned. I do remember thinking "would she notice if I passed out? She seems pretty focused on this whole deal."

Finally, we took off—and it was easy. Seriously, I didn't even notice at first. What tipped me off was my fear-limbs were now weightless, and suddenly all over the place. Then, BANG! I heard the landing, and suddenly we were accelerating and my limbs were pinned again, but I honestly didn't feel it. These cars are amazing pieces of machinery.

After the jump, there were more smoking tires and hand brake turns and all that, but I just kept a bug stupid grin on my face the whole time. We did 2 more laps, and I loved every minute of it. GRC car? Yes, I'll take it.

Okay, that's all I can type on my iPad at 10:38 pm. But there's some supercar impressions for you.

Love it Tom!

I just counted the pile of magazines next to my chair. There are 13 titles in it, all automotive. They all have content that I find interesting, and they all have unread articles. I couldn't rank them from best to worst without there being a bunch of ties, although there are a couple that are clearly less interesting to me. BUT, and here's the difference GRM brings to the pile, only one of them has got me to drive two thousand miles to watch an auto event, buy a $250 wreck, attend a welding course at the community college,add words like "berkley" to my vocabulary and start building something in my garage. The others in the pile give me stuff to dream about, GRM gives me something I can do. I've spent hours today trying to figure out how to connect a 1uzfe to a W58 without a $700 adapter. I say keep on doing what you have been up until now, it's working.

Gary wrote: To 06HHR, you misread what I wrote. I've also met members of "the staff" at events. Only one of them wasn't open, cordial, and personable, and that was on several occasions, same person. Maybe that was a misunderstanding but that's unlikely. (But then again I'm not a celeb like Sterling Moss or Jay Leno, or a potential ad buyer).

Well I don't know what happened because I wasn't around, but cut the guy a little slack, he's got a couple of magazines to run.. Just sayin'

EDIT: Off-topic but sort of relavant. About 10 years ago I was at the Gatornationals with some friends, I was a customer at a booth with Antron Brown and Angelle Seeling (Sampey, Savoie, she's been married a lot) and they were signing autographs on the merchandise they sold, or whatever you wanted autographed. Antron was great, he's a bubbly kind of guy anyway but Angelle was sort of sullen and you could tell she really didn't want to be there. I thought she was being snotty and I let her know, but in hindsight it was a really di*k move on my part because even though part of her job that day was to entertain the great unwashed, she's still human and we all have bad days when we aren't at our best, so I should have been a little more understanding seeing as she was riding a 190+ MPH crotch rocket for my entertainment.

EastCoastMojo wrote: Love it Tom!

Second! Great post.