Audi info?

Paul_VR6 wrote: Why not just do the 4cyl 20v swap? You can get almost as much power (AEB will hold a lot in stock form) and they're much more plentiful then the turbo 5cyl 20v motors.

They don't sound as cool, and that doesn't seem like a bolt in swap? Or is it? I really don't know anything whatsoever about those motors.

If i was going to use that motor, wouldn't it make more sense just to get an A4 that already had that motor? I'm not totally against that, so talk to me. I'm looking for a ton of power, awd, and Audi. Hopefully with a pretty cheap initial buy-in.

Nothing to add, just thought the thread needed a picture.

Audi + anything != cheap.

All the 4cyl and 5cyl cars use the same bolt pattern so any of those motors will 'bolt in.'

Using an A4 as a base will lock you into an OBD2 compliant car, which as a race car is no problem. Though gutting those electronics and keeping it truly OBD2 plug in emissions compliant is impossible.

Paul_VR6 wrote: Audi + anything != cheap. All the 4cyl and 5cyl cars use the same bolt pattern so any of those motors will 'bolt in.' Using an A4 as a base will lock you into an OBD2 compliant car, which as a race car is no problem. Though gutting those electronics and keeping it truly OBD2 plug in emissions compliant is impossible.

Well, cheap is relative. I was looking at trying to stay around $2-$3k for a car to start with. Looking for a decently clean example, which is why i wasn't really looking at A4s to start with. But if they're that much easier to find in good shape, i can stretch my budget as long as they'll still be capable of my final power goal.

I know there will be a lot of money involved in the project as a whole. In the past, i've seen 90 Quattros go for well under $2000 in pretty decent shape, so that's what appeals to me.

Paul_VR6 wrote: All the 4cyl and 5cyl cars use the same bolt pattern so any of those motors will 'bolt in.'

The engines themselves have different bolt patterns. Later Audi transmissions (I don't know which ones) have a dual bolt pattern that will take a 4 or 5. So if you want an early Quattro system with a locker or torsen center, you're stuck with the 5 cyl. That's not such a bad thing. I just bought a 200 tq for $500. Tons of miles, but drives very well and still makes full boost--a mighty 6 psi.

I think there's a lot of cheap fun to be had with the 5k/200. It looks like a better rear suspension than the 4k, stronger parts, and there's a ton of weight that can be removed if you really strip it. Ok, maybe only a half ton, but still...

I thought about a 1.8t. Meh. They're still pretty expensive to buy and to build. It looks to me like a 16v turbo beats it on a $/HP basis at almost every level.

---edit---

I have a theory that even FWD Audis should have some advantage at putting power down. If the oversteer point and shoot method of FWD piloting really works, the Audi should be a natural. It will wan't to rotate around that heavy nose, and once you get it pointed in the right direction, the extreme forward weight bias will help traction. Just a theory, though.

I really dig the concept of a fast 80's Quattro, particularly taking a UR Quattro and building a Quattro Sport replica out of it. I've nothing technical to add, just throwing more gas onto the fire :)

I took these up at the Sno*Drift rally last month. UR Quattro's in the snow. http://picasaweb.google.com/XLMoose/UrQuattroSAtThe2010SnoDrift#

And to really ruin your productivity and send you wallet/401k screaming for cover, here's some conversion threads.

http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11362 http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26537 http://www.highoctane.nl/projects/sportquattro/index.html

There's many more out there.

I get the fantasy of building a sport quattro every year around Sno*Drift time and waste many happy hours reading about them online. Feel free to blame me for ruining your day :)

Ben, you have seen this, right? http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/200x-classifieds/audi-200tq-avant-offersvw16v-trades/19053/page1/

No... but i will check that out tonite when i can see the pictures. Thanks!

Oh wait... yeah. I did see that. Not exactly what i had in mind. Looking for a fairly clean car inside and out to start with. I'm in an apartment right now, not looking for a project that needs to be started right this instant.

IIRC the dual bolt pattern stuff isn't for 4/5 it's for 4/5 AND the 90deg V6.

I don't see how much more $$ a 1.8/20v swap is then a 16v.. I got mine (ATW longblock/with manifolds) for $200 a few years ago when they were quite a bit thinner on the ground then today.

If extreme front weight bias actually worked, 6cyl powered VW's could turn. Not quite sure how true that is, I usually end up in the woods!

I havent read the whole thread but there was a company that sold the stuff to do VR6 swaps for older Audis.

Kennedy Engineering sells bellhousing adapters that will let you go as nuts as a 13b rotary in a 90q. Yes, I will do it someday.

SlickDizzy wrote: Kennedy Engineering sells bellhousing adapters that will let you go as nuts as a 13b rotary in a 90q. Yes, I will do it someday.

I can vouch for Kennedy, bought some stuff from them years ago, nice stuff.

BBC

034 Motorsport sells VR6 into B chassis stuff, but it's $$. More complicated swap also.

Ehh... i'm really wanting a 5 cylinder. Just 'cuz.

Nothing about this car is really rational, so i'm just going to let everything tickle my funny parts and not worry about the "responsible" or "smarter" way to go about it.

If i wanted a rational car, i'd probably buy another Honda or an E36 BMW.

I hear that, just beware that it usually ends up being twice as expensive.

Paul_VR6 wrote: IIRC the dual bolt pattern stuff isn't for 4/5 it's for 4/5 AND the 90deg V6. I don't see how much more $$ a 1.8/20v swap is then a 16v.. I got mine (ATW longblock/with manifolds) for $200 a few years ago when they were quite a bit thinner on the ground then today. If extreme front weight bias actually worked, 6cyl powered VW's could turn. Not quite sure how true that is, I usually end up in the woods!

I'm pretty sure of my facts on the 4 vs 5 thing, but that's cool. Someone else can figure it out.

I didn't look too hard, but all the 1.8t stuff I saw was close to the $800 mark, so that's the basis for my thoughts on that. I was actually very surprised they were still so expensive. Maybe I'm not shopping in the right places. But I figure you can build a 16vt that will make roughly the same power for that much. Also, my understanding is that the stock 1.8t turbos are relatively limited when it comes to making more than stock power. If you have to buy a T3/T4 turbo and manifold anyway, then a lot of the cost savings is gone. It also seems like engine management would be easier and cheaper for the 16v since it has a distributor. Finding a G60 TPS throttle body is getting more expensive though.

Anyway, these are just thoughts I had when contemplating whether it was worth trying to use a 4 cyl vs a 5 on the budget I have. It seemed like there was no dirt cheap 4 cyl that can make a lot of power. The turbo 10v is very cheap up to about 15 psi. I don't believe the folks who are saying that makes 250 hp, but it's still nothing to sneeze at.

The front weight bias thing assumes that you have a very "loose" rear end. You come into the corner very hot, break the rear loose so the car rotates into the corner, then hit the throttle and drag the rear wheels back into line. I've never tried setting up a car that way, so I don't know if it works. That's sorta what I was saying in that post.

angusmf wrote: The front weight bias thing assumes that you have a very "loose" rear end. You come into the corner very hot, break the rear loose so the car rotates into the corner, then hit the throttle and drag the rear wheels back into line. I've never tried setting up a car that way, so I don't know if it works. That's sorta what I was saying in that post.

This is exactly what my Celica used to do before i "ruined" it further. It does work. It was near impossible to overcook a corner. If you took it too fast, the rear would just swing out a little more, scrub off your speed, and then rotate back in line with the front and off you went.

Weird feeling at first, especially for a FWD car, but man, was it EVER easy to drive.

94 Quattro 5 cylinder for $900 http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/1604835566.html

digdug18 wrote: 94 Quattro 5 cylinder for $900 http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/1604835566.html

Yep, i sent him an email asking if it was truly a 94, or truly a 5 cylinder. It can't be both, unless it's the product of some swap in the past.

Little rougher than i was looking for, but i figure if i spend the rest of my project budget on cleaning it up asthetically, it could come out ok.

Looking to spend $2-3k for a nice clean one. Bonus points if it's some shade of black.

I found a couple on cl, a 20 valve or 2 as well. why the switch from toyota's and mazda's? just need a change?

Andrew

I'm thinking audi quattro as well at some point, I'm thinking OBD2 car though, most likely v6 2.8 motor, they're really cheap because they are a less desirable motor. Megasquirting it would take care of the obd2 I think, lol. And depending on the time of year they seem to be inexpensive.

Andrew

digdug18 wrote: I found a couple on cl, a 20 valve or 2 as well. why the switch from toyota's and mazda's? just need a change? Andrew

It's not a switch, per se... Think of it as an addition. The Celica will probably not leave me for another decade. I have big plans for it, and now that i just got a raise (go me!) i should have the first stage wrapped up within the year, culminating in a bit over 300whp and the same torque. Should be fun in a stiff, caged, 2300lb car, yes?

The Escort is playing DD/project duty for the girlfriend. Yes, she wants it modified, pretty, and fast. That'll get a BPT out of a GTX swapped in, and then made pretty. Pretty cheap swap.

The MX6 is the challenge car/my DD. It's pretty much done. Just trying to decide if i should blow the rest of my budget on Megasquirt, or nitrous and alc injection. Other than that? It needs a stereo.

The audi was just going to be a "for fun car." Something different for me, a modified car that's still COMFY to drive, but fast as hell.

Though my one track mind has now realized that i'll be able to afford a pretty decent Miata in the next month or two as well, or put a 50% downpayment on a nice MR2 Spyder. Decisions decisions decisions.

So yeah... not a change. And for the record, i'm not a "Mazda guy." They're fun... but besides the Miata, they don't really tickle my fancy that much. I'm in love with my Celica. I'm not in love with the MX6 or the Escort.

digdug18 wrote: 94 Quattro 5 cylinder for $900 http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/1604835566.html

Update:

Turns out this car is in fact a 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20v. Asking price is $900, owner claims it runs well, no rust, the only glaring exterior flaw is that it's missing the grill. (No big deal.)

Now, he says that a shifter cable is snapped/disconnected. What are the chances that this is the case and the transmission is still good?

Is this worth looking at do you guys think? I'm almost thinking of going to look at it, seeing if i can find the problem cable, and if it truly is broken, buying a new cable, replacing it, and then see if i can drive it before i buy it. If the new cable doesn't work, then i'm out whatever the cable costs.

Any idea how much the cable could run?

Owner says it has new brakes, runs great, suspension is solid, interior is in great shape, and zero leaks. Car is located about 30 minutes from me.

Run dont' walk?

Anecdote of when the car failed the owner: Does this in fact sound like a shifter cable to everyone?

seller said: ya i drove it up to gas station put it in 1st and went in to store came back out and started it up and went to put into reverse and the shifter had tons of slop in it

Paul_VR6 wrote: Audi + anything != cheap. All the 4cyl and 5cyl cars use the same bolt pattern so any of those motors will 'bolt in.'

They most certainly do not. Fours and fives are similar-but-different.

I play with 016 cars. I have a whole bunch of 4 cylinder performance hardware. VW/Audi never sold an 016 in the US that had the 4 cylinder bolt pattern, only the 5-cylinder.

As a consolation, I can bolt a V6 or V8 engine to my trans

The 01A and 01E transaxles are dual bolt pattern - fours and fives will bolt up.