Auto-X Brake Pads - Stock or Aftermarket?

I recently made a post on a Mazda3 forum suggesting a non-Speed Mazda3 autocrosser replace his brake fluid and maybe consider different pads. I've gotten a lot of replies back stating that stock pads are fine on the Mazda3s. I replied back that I didn't know the Mazda3 pads were good, that was speaking from my experience from my FC. It had crappy, worn parts store pads when I bought it and that I preferred the Hawk HP+ pads I installed on it. They retorted that for any car stock pads are fine and that I'm overcompensating for my slowness.

I freely admit to being slow at auto-x, but am I trying to overcompensate for that by having aftermarket pads? Would I be better off going to stock pads? Car is an FC RX-7 with the four-piston front calipers.

Change your argument from brake pads to tires and see if it still holds up.

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Yeah, I'd stick with the aftermarket pads, too.

I Di Ots.

Stock pads are fine for grandma's and soccer moms. For the rest of us they usually glaze over pretty quickly and generally lack good feel. I Loved the Hawk HPS I had on the Elantra, I am not particularly fond of the EBC Redstuffs on the Swift, but once warm they are great. Typically aftermarket performance oriented pads will offer better bite, better feel and will keep from fading better than stockers.

Again, this is my personal opinion/experience.

For autocross, stock pads are fine. You're unlikely to cook your pads, fluid, etc. like you would on a track.

That said, there is NOTHING wrong with running aftermarket pads for autocross. When my Miata's stock pads died I took advantage of the opportunity to "maintainify" and replaced them with Hawk HPS pads. Yes, they're better, and I do notice the difference on course and on the street. But I don't think they're a necessary upgrade for autocross, either. And there is absolutely no reason to downgrade to stock if you've already got aftermarket pads.

You have to have some REALLY good tires (or a really long course!) to overheat the pads in an autocross, IMO. It's not going to hurt if you're in need of pads anyway, but I bet 99% of drivers won't see any reduced times with aftermarket pads (compared to stock stuff in good working condition).

Track duty or long periods of abuse otherwise (Deal's Gap, for example) will definitely see benefit from better pads, but that's a different story compared to a handful of 30-90 second autocross runs.

Bryce

I'm a fan of Hawk HP+'s and I'm slow as crap as an autocrosser.

The dusting is annoying on a frequently-driven car, but other than that, they do their job well. On a light car, they don't even chew the rotors up much at all.

ReverendDexter wrote: Change your argument from brake pads to tires and see if it still holds up. ... ... ... Yeah, I'd stick with the aftermarket pads, too.

I lost a lot of faith in the mazda6 forums when, in response to a "how wide can I go without rolling the fenders" question I posed, the resident blowhards tried to convince me that a wider tire had no performance advantage what so ever...

Clearly, they've never seen successful stock-class auto-x setups.

Ehh... i disagree with the sentiments that you won't see faster times with aftermarket pads in an autocross situation.

Good aftermarket pads will have better bite, and that's gotta be worth something.

My car stops so hard it hurts. It was never capable of that on stock replacement stuff, even though it was all pretty fresh.

There are a bunch of options with aftermarket pads. I would be looking for a pad that heats up a bit quicker and has better initial bite for doing autocross. Stock pads would probably hold up just fine though.

I bought my '99 Miata from a very competitive stock-class autocrosser who ran OEM pads up front and very soft aftermarket pads in the rear. His rationale was that if you could get the rears to bite harder you might avoid locking up the fronts. I removed the rear pads because they dusted like nothing ever seen before, but split the difference replacing them with Hawk HPS, keeping OEMs up front.

FWIW I still have issues with fronts locking up, but I think that's 100% due to my terrible AX driving rather than equipment issues.

93celicaGT2 wrote: Ehh... i disagree with the sentiments that you won't see faster times with aftermarket pads in an autocross situation. Good aftermarket pads will have better bite, and that's gotta be worth something. My car stops so hard it hurts. It was never capable of that on stock replacement stuff, even though it was all pretty fresh.

What pads are you running for autocross?

Lugnut wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote: Ehh... i disagree with the sentiments that you won't see faster times with aftermarket pads in an autocross situation. Good aftermarket pads will have better bite, and that's gotta be worth something. My car stops so hard it hurts. It was never capable of that on stock replacement stuff, even though it was all pretty fresh.

What pads are you running for autocross?

EBC Yellowstuffs

ncjay wrote: There are a bunch of options with aftermarket pads. I would be looking for a pad that heats up a bit quicker and has better initial bite for doing autocross. Stock pads would probably hold up just fine though.

ya OEM pads will probably "hold up" ok.... that said they won't began to stop as fast as aftermarket pads that are made for auto cross... those won't be quite as good on a track day (heat..fade..etc) but the bite and whoa down ability will be far far greater than any of the OEM pads (other than those that come with some of the exotics) something like the formally named bobcat or panther+ from carbotech, I sure Hawk has the same type available

no matter what the Mazda forum folk say...

I run a 3 in HS.

Had HP+s on it for a bit. Throw the car into ice mode quite a bit, especially in corners when you're picking a wheel up. Went back to stockies, no issue.

wbjones wrote: but the bite and whoa down ability will be far far greater than any of the OEM pads ... no matter what the Mazda forum folk say...

You might get a bit more "bite" and so be applying stopping power a fraction faster. But as far as "whoah down ability" after that point, if you can lock your tires, the pads are already giving you more stopping than you can use.

up to a point you are correct, but along with enhancing your stopping ability you should also improve the traction (tires) which can then take advantage of the better brakes , with most OEM pads you would have more tire than your pads could use (with out the upgrade)

besides which, at a night autocross the sparks thrown by the metallic pads are just plain cool...

If you run dual-drivers or ProSolo or anywhere really hot better pads are a must IMO. Stock pads are fine for an occasional auto-x (stock as in OEM, not $9.99 parts store BS) but as soon as you start heat-cycling like crazy with back-to-back runs you're going to want something better. I'm a huge fan of the Performance Friction CarbonMetallics and Hawk HPS's. EBC lost me a year ago when we had problems with two different sets on two different cars. Manufacturing defects in brake products are a no-no to me.

So far it sounds like I should stick to what I have in the RX-7, but OEM pads might be sufficient for the Mazda3 guy...

SpeedTheory wrote: I run a 3 in HS. Had HP+s on it for a bit. Throw the car into ice mode quite a bit, especially in corners when you're picking a wheel up. Went back to stockies, no issue.

Very helpful post, this. The OP in the Mazda3 thread has a turbo kit on his Mazda3, which is why I suggested different pads. I didn't know they would send the car into "ice mode." Is there a DSC switch on the Mazda3 like there is on the MS3s? If so, have you tried holding the switch down before turning the ignition? This supposedly turns off all driving aids on the MS3. Or do you mean ice mode as in your ABS kicks in extra hard?

I have a FC rx7 that use to be an auto-x and track toy. now do to time its only a track toy. but this is what i found.

For the car spec'd to SCCA ITS which transfers to CSP i could not get enough heat in the brakes for Hawk HP+ to work well. (they did better at the track though i run blues now) Switched to a semi-metalic autozone special and my auto-x times improved

Depends on the car. With two drivers in the MINI and MINIS, I've been happy and competitive on the stock pads in a stock class/low hp car.

Ice mode as in ABS kicks in retardedly. It sucks in ice, and it REALLY sucks while autocrossing. Not being able to stop by the end of the stop gates is a nuisance to everyone.

Same with me - still running the original OEM pads on my Sentra after 6 years of autocrossing. They got a little hot after each run at Sebring last year, which is a huge course with lots of braking, but not to the point of fade. I just drove around the perimeter road a bit before getting back in the stage line and they cooled right off. I've tried HP pads in the past and always found them too easy to lock a wheel; difficult to modulate. And on the smaller local courses, heat is not even close to being an issue.

My advice is coming from a 2900lb FWD sedan that came with stock 9.9" front rotors. Pads glaze and rotors warp in about 20k miles of medium duty use. Auto-x? HA! After the car was "retired" it got a set of 11" front rotors and larger pads. Made a tremendous difference, even over the HPS on stock size front brakes.

If I were a crazy left-foot braker, I'd be more concerned with brake pads on an autocross course.

That said, I feel a HUGE difference in the braking response between my stock, autozone-pad equipped WRX and my not-at-all-stock, Porterfield P4s-padded Miata, but I think it's more from the stainless lines than the pad material. YMMV.