autocross and what else is safe for a DD?

Ive recently gotten into autocross and have been loving it. What other types of racing is there that's relatively safe on a car?

If any...

Thanks!

Well, you've probably started with the "safest" of any available in autocross. From there, there are track days (also know as HDPE's) and time trial racing. Each is SUPPOSED to be non-"wheel to wheel" racing, but both have faster top speeds than autocross, since they are generally held at road courses.

Some might say Rallycross is relatively "safe" for a DD, but its not something I'd do if I needed to get to work on Monday.

If you're asking for opinions (and, BTW, I fought this for a long time) its best not to be racing your ONLY vehicle. I raced the SE-R in my avatar for about three years, but never really started pushing the car and myself until it got to where I had another ride to work if I broke it. I ended up turning that car into a Miata and a winter beater/trash hauler/people hauler/cheap hypermiler Saturn SL. In the end, it was a great decision. No matter what I take the Miata to, if it comes home on a truck, I'm not totally hosed. Its sort of liberating and makes whatever form of racing you do a lot more fun.

HPDE if you are new you have an instructor in car with you.

Define "safe". I've seen cars wreck in autox, so any form of automotive hooning can be dangerous. The degree of safety is largely up to the person behind the wheel. Seriously.

Best saying out there....Don't take it to the track if you can't leave it at the track. Autocross can even break stuff but it's definitely a lot less common.

+1 for what kazoospec said. There's also gymkhana/mirrorkhana or "trackcross", all are similar to autocross. The differences are that the -khanas have more stunt-like obstacles, like doing a certain number of turns around a cone or knocking a ball off a cone, and mirrorkhana has two cars on the track at the same time and they'll occasionally be driving towards each other, so there's a bit more danger there.

"Trackcross" is basically just high-speed, wide-open autocross on a track. If you played NFSU2 way back when and did "StreetX," it's that but with runoff areas instead of walls.

Klayfish wrote: Define "safe". I've seen cars wreck in autox, so any form of automotive hooning can be dangerous. The degree of safety is largely up to the person behind the wheel. Seriously.

I came here to say this. I've seen cars rolled at autocrosses, I've seen cars finish stage rallies intact. Nothing is safe, it's on you to keep your car in one piece- I've failed at that more than once

Klayfish wrote: Define "safe". I've seen cars wreck in autox, so any form of automotive hooning can be dangerous. The degree of safety is largely up to the person behind the wheel. Seriously.

I'd say "safe" means lowish speeds and plenty of runoff area. The person behind the wheel does make a big difference, but there will always be mistakes and the consequences can vary from "spinning harmlessly into a big open area at 80kph" to "smacking that wall you were sliding just inches from at 200kph and then sliding off the cliff on the other side of the road."

Saw a guy nearly slide off a cliff behind me in offroad rally once, I was frozen in fear saying "E36 M3, E36 M3, E36 M3!" and my navigator was saying "What are you doing, keep going!" (I don't think he saw behind us)

Being "safe" is staying at home, or at least we all hope it is. Anytime you set out into the world, you're taking more risks. With all the liability claims etc. going on today, I'd think any event that allows your DD to enter is probably pretty safe.

Once you leave the house, safety has a whole lot more to do with the operator than any other factor. They always said the most dangerous phase of any moon landing mission was the astronauts driving to the space port. That probably also applies to any DD event you might be allowed to enter.

I've taken my DD to HPDEs, but that's as far as I would go. I consider rallyx to be much more abusive than an HPDE, but you'll definitely be wearing things out a little faster on a track. I had to drive home in my DD with only gears 1, 3, and 5 once because a seal blew and I lost all the trans fluid over the course of one session and no one noticed until after the session, and by then it was toast. I lost 2, 4, and reverse on the way home, followed by driving it that way for a month while I sourced another trans.

Rupert wrote: They always said the most dangerous phase of any moon landing mission was the astronauts driving to the space port.

The total number of launch seats in the entire NASA space program is a bit over 900 (7 Mercury, 20 Gemini, 33 Apollo, 9 Skylab, 3 Apollo-Soyuz, and the dominant 833 on the Shuttle). Out of that number, 14 died in the two Shuttle accidents and 3 in the Apollo 1 test. Driving to the space port has a lot less than a 1.8% chance of killing someone. Yes, the 6 moon landing missions went smoothly (if you discount Apollo 13, in which we just barely avoided losing the astronauts), but that's not a useful sample set size.

As for the original question -- autocross is pretty safe. Yes, stuff has happened, but the odds are significantly against it and the incidents tend to be weirdo cases. Tippy cars with sticky R comps and stock suspensions, courses laid out dangerously close to curbs, stuff like that. Track days stand a much better chance of bending something, cars hitting walls is a fairly significant risk. Generally I agree with the sentiment to not take something to the track unless you can afford to wad it up into a ball and walk away, but there is at least one group out there offering track day insurance. It's only available with certain organizers, it's pretty expensive, and it has a high deductible, but if you really want to take your DD to the track and have no other way to get to work then it's an option.

GameboyRMH wrote: +1 for what kazoospec said. There's also gymkhana/mirrorkhana or "trackcross", all are similar to autocross. The differences are that the -khanas have more stunt-like obstacles, like doing a certain number of turns around a cone or knocking a ball off a cone, and mirrorkhana has two cars on the track at the same time and they'll occasionally be driving towards each other, so there's a bit more danger there. "Trackcross" is basically just high-speed, wide-open autocross on a track. If you played NFSU2 way back when and did "StreetX," it's that but with runoff areas instead of walls.

Not to thread jack but do you have any links for these events? They seem like A LOT of fun. Thanks

I think autox is 'safe' in terms of relatively lower speeds and less chance you'll wad the car up. I don't think it is necessarily any easier on equipment than an HPDE.

Open Road Racing is relatively safe, especially at the lower speed classes.

I have done about a dozen HPDEs in the last two years, with three different BMW car clubs and one Porsche car club.

I would send either of my teenagers out with these groups for HPDE, in one of MY daily drivers, without concern. The programs I have been to seek to build your skills at a prudent and incremental rate. You don't get to go all-out until you have progressively established the instructor's confidence in your technical skills and car control skills. However, they do not accept drivers under 18, so we will be keeping the kids at the autocross level for now.

But in a dozen weekends, I have seen a handful of dented cars. Two hit deer on the back straight, which Summit Point is infamous for. Not pretty. As for the others, in the BMW clubs I have run with, the damaged cars were all in the instructor run group, not the student group.

But I did see one unfortunate guy in a novice group at VIR blow the motor on his M3, spray oil everywhere, catch it on fire with the brakes or exhaust, and burn his car to the ground. Stuff happens. If I'm driving a "nice" car at an HPDE, I buy a track policy to cover me for the weekend. It ain't cheap (around $400 for $60k coverage), but I can't afford to total a nice car.

Right now, at least, HPDE is a real thrill for me. I urge anybody who has something that stops and steers, and who has access to a club with a good reputation for instruction, to try it at least once, and see how they like it. Being out on track clears the mind like nothing else, and the people you will meet are absolutely fantastic.

so basically time trial days, not side by side racing... ill definitely be grabbing an instructor if i decide to go out and do it.

Hill climbs a relatively safe as long as you keep it on the pavement.

Our ice racing series has a Street Legal class that has a strict no contact rule.

And it works.

The great majority of the cars at our rallycrosses double as DDs, and we rarely have a car that can't drive home after an event. I don't rallycross my DD, but that's only because I think rallycrossing a WRX is boring, and RWD is more fun in the dirt...

And my WRX has a lowered, stiff suspension and I like my ass not hurting.

I daily drove my Miata for 3 or so years while also rallycrossing it. It has only had to be towed home once but that was only because the engine self destructed.

Depending what car you have - drag racing.

Drag racing a miata probably isn't very much fun.

But you can have a lot of fun drag racing and autocrossing a mustang or camaro or something like that. I think a lot of people on here under-appreciate the skill and thrill of drag racing. Every car I get, I try to take it to the dragstrip at least once.

nboyles85737 wrote: Ive recently gotten into autocross and have been loving it. What other types of racing is there that's relatively safe on a car? If any... Thanks!

If there was ever a question that the answer depended on what car, this is it.

drag racing has always worked for me. even driving the 2 hours there, racing and driving home.

Haven't considered drag... not sure a diff focus would be tons of fun at a strip.

GameboyRMH wrote:

Klayfish wrote: Define "safe". I've seen cars wreck in autox, so any form of automotive hooning can be dangerous. The degree of safety is largely up to the person behind the wheel. Seriously.

I'd say "safe" means lowish speeds and plenty of runoff area. The person behind the wheel does make a big difference, but there will always be mistakes and the consequences can vary from "spinning harmlessly into a big open area at 80kph" to "smacking that wall you were sliding just inches from at 200kph and then sliding off the cliff on the other side of the road."

You are undoubtedly correct, but you know what happens as soon as someone says "The course is safe...there's no way someone could hit that pole all the way over there..."

On this forum not only do you have to define "safe" but you also have to define "racing"!

You should run the Isle of Man TT. Naked.