My friend decided on an 88-91 Civic for his first foray into autocross and I'd like to help him out. It's going to have the 1.5l, 91 hp engine and probably no rear swaybar because most of the sedans didn't have one.
What are some good, ultra low budget ideas for improving the handling and brakes? I'm already thinking used race tires, Si front brakes and making an adjustable rear bar out of the front bar on a motorhome.
Stiffer shocks and springs come to mind. Given the absolute and sheer number of those built, modified, and subsequently raced, parts are out there.
If you are starting out, the best thing to do is just make sure the car has up-to-date maintenance. Then drive it like it is for at least a season. The stock suspension and hard street tires will communicate what the car is doing to the driver. This will make you a smoother, faster driver.
Then start the mods.
I am fairly confident that an '88-91 Civic has been autocrossed before, there may be some documentation on ways to get them to perform better for cheap. There's a magazine that has had a feature now and again on them...the name is slipping my mind right now, but it's something like Fastmoves Motorsports or Crashproof Motorsports. Google it.
Bryce
Nashco wrote: I am fairly confident that an '88-91 Civic has been autocrossed before, there may be some documentation on ways to get them to perform better for cheap. There's a magazine that has had a feature now and again on them...the name is slipping my mind right now, but it's something like Fastmoves Motorsports or Crashproof Motorsports. Google it. Bryce
That's crazy talk.
stiff springs and shocks. Remove front sway bar and add rear sway bar until rotation is achieved.
Done.
But seriously, some back issues should help. Check out some recent wishbone Honda project cars: the '92 Civic Si, '88 CRX track rat and Andy Hollis's Civic.
Nashco wrote: I am fairly confident that an '88-91 Civic has been autocrossed before, there may be some documentation on ways to get them to perform better for cheap. There's a magazine that has had a feature now and again on them...the name is slipping my mind right now, but it's something like Fastmoves Motorsports or Crashproof Motorsports. Google it. Bryce
Next thing you're going to tell us is a Miata is a good racing car, and that they're not hairdressers' cars.
David S. Wallens wrote:Nashco wrote: I am fairly confident that an '88-91 Civic has been autocrossed before, there may be some documentation on ways to get them to perform better for cheap. There's a magazine that has had a feature now and again on them...the name is slipping my mind right now, but it's something like Fastmoves Motorsports or Crashproof Motorsports. Google it. BryceThat's crazy talk.
Crazy, but wise.
A guy here in Detroit runs a Civic of that exact era, street tire, HS- and he's very quick. From there, the path is very open- ST, SP, SM, Prepared....
Perfect car to start with. Don't do a thing, don't have to. Figure out what you then want to do.
Take care when modifing an EF Civic it's addictive and the problem comes when you find yourself in Street Mod class running against worked WRX's with 3x the horsepower and twice the grip. Seriously for a first foray into autocross consider performance shocks and race tires and stay in stock class. I think they class as H stock, not that my civic was ever in H stock as I started modifing the first day I bought it. There are so many parts available it is hard not to start with the bolt-ons the first day.
Tune up and make sure the suspension is in good shape and then run it.
Nashco wrote: I am fairly confident that an '88-91 Civic has been autocrossed before, there may be some documentation on ways to get them to perform better for cheap. There's a magazine that has had a feature now and again on them...the name is slipping my mind right now, but it's something like Fastmoves Motorsports or Crashproof Motorsports. Google it. Bryce
If that site only had a search function, then you could find the info you wanted without relying on being a Google ninja.
DaewooOfDeath wrote: ...and making an adjustable rear bar out of the front bar on a motorhome.
Only on this site would someone post that one of first things they could think of to improve the performance of a car is to modify a RV front sway bar to make it work on the rear of a Civic - one of the cars with the most aftermarket support BTW, and after ten or so posts not a single peep about using an RV part.
That cracks me up. I forget sometimes how unique and wonderful this site is.
If you really are determine to modify it, go to junkyard and look for Integras. Try to find a GS-R rear bar.
Don't forget, though, the unibody's mounting area for the rear anti-roll bar has a reputation for being a bit weak.
T.J. wrote:DaewooOfDeath wrote: ...and making an adjustable rear bar out of the front bar on a motorhome.Only on this site would someone post that one of first things they could think of to improve the performance of a car is to modify a RV front sway bar to make it work on the rear of a Civic - one of the cars with the most aftermarket support BTW, and after ten or so posts not a single peep about using an RV part. That cracks me up. I forget sometimes how unique and wonderful this site is.
I just figured the RV bar would be huge and cheap. I guess that means I have the sickness.
David S. Wallens wrote: But seriously, some back issues should help. Check out some recent wishbone Honda project cars: the '92 Civic Si, '88 CRX track rat and Andy Hollis's Civic.
I loved your CRX track rat and the 92 red hatch. The problem is that you guys spent more than a thousand bucks. I'm looking for ultra-budget stuff.
I had a stock 88 sedan and they do handle well. However, I never got it to oversteer. Since this car is for a beginner who has never done performance before, I'd like to shoot for adjustable, oversteer-able and responsive before class competitive. Sedans aren't competitive anyway.
If I can go without using a single aftermarket part, that's better. Stuff like springs and shocks from bigger or higher performance Hondas would be cool. I'm generally a fan of running really stiff springs, so if they ever made an Accord F350, that would be awesome.
Bolt in faster and/or manual steering racks, factory adjustable control arms, Accord or Integra brakes, factory short shifters - stuff like that.
Koni Yellows for stock class.
22mm rear sway with subframe reinforcement (or it will tear out) and some Ground Control coilover sleeves for non-stock class.
Some street/track pads (I like Hawk HP+), fresh rotors and drums.
Go have fun sliding around on the stock tires on this setup.
If your friend has never auto-x'ed, he might as well leave it as close to stock as he can until he learns to drive. That takes a couple of seasons. I held off on my rear swaybar until I got better at looking ahead on the course--then it REALLY helped when I got it.
mndsm wrote:T.J. wrote:I just figured the RV bar would be huge and cheap. I guess that means I have the sickness.DaewooOfDeath wrote: ...and making an adjustable rear bar out of the front bar on a motorhome.Only on this site would someone post that one of first things they could think of to improve the performance of a car is to modify a RV front sway bar to make it work on the rear of a Civic - one of the cars with the most aftermarket support BTW, and after ten or so posts not a single peep about using an RV part. That cracks me up. I forget sometimes how unique and wonderful this site is.
And I'm going to make it stiffer than it was on the RV ...
I'm gonna get a bar that's too long and cut off the arms so there's no bend. Then I'll get the ends splined and bolt on some perpendicular arms to reach the rear control arms. Sort of make this, but more adjustable and hopefully about 100 bucks all together.
I was going to mount it backwards so that the chassis/bar interface is in the trunk and then make multiple mounting points on the chassis so that, when we change the mounting holes we can keep the links upright.
T.J. wrote:Nashco wrote: I am fairly confident that an '88-91 Civic has been autocrossed before, there may be some documentation on ways to get them to perform better for cheap. There's a magazine that has had a feature now and again on them...the name is slipping my mind right now, but it's something like Fastmoves Motorsports or Crashproof Motorsports. Google it. BryceIf that site only had a search function, then you could find the info you wanted without relying on being a Google ninja.
In a roundabout way, GRM's site is pretty easily searched. Just add "site:grassrootsmotorsports.com" at the front of any search string in Google, and it'll get whatever you need. Whoever does the SEO for the GRM forums is on the berkeleying ball because I can always find what I need, sometimes when I'm not even searching GRM specifically.
First step should always be tighten the loose nut behind the wheel.
Teach him to drive the factory suspension tune. All that pitch, dive and squat will help him understand weight transfer. The ultra-progressive handling of stock tires will help him understand car control. After those two lessons he can take advantage of upgrades.
Until he learns those two lessons upgrades only means that the car is going faster when he makes the same mistakes. Best case: he doesn't learn. Worst case: he crashes. I guarantee if he achieves "that guy on youtube" status he quits autocrossing.
David
DWNSHFT wrote: First step should always be tighten the loose nut behind the wheel. Teach him to drive the factory suspension tune. All that pitch, dive and squat will help him understand weight transfer. The ultra-progressive handling of stock tires will help him understand car control. After those two lessons he can take advantage of upgrades. Until he learns those two lessons upgrades only means that the car is going faster when he makes the same mistakes. Best case: he doesn't learn. Worst case: he crashes. I guarantee if he achieves "that guy on youtube" status he quits autocrossing. David
Listen to this. I am not but do as I say not as I do. 
I would look for a '92-'95 Civic Si + Koni Sports + big rear sway bar + Star Specs for RTF(HS).
I used to autocross a 90 Civic Sedan. I went to the junkyard, found a few Si models, and pulled what I could. That meant rear disk brakes (mine had drums) and a rear sway bar. I also did the mini-me engine upgrade, which swaps out the DPFI head for a MPFI head. It's not terribly difficult to do and well documented online.
For handling, I went with Tokico blue dampers for cost, with some matched springs. I swapped out all of the worn suspension bushings with new poly stuff, complete kits are like $100. I added front and rear strut tower braces to stiffen things up a bit, one was an e-bay purchase and I fabbed the rear myself. A $15 Cherry bomb muffler opened up the exhaust a bit and gave a nice sound.
LopRacer wrote: Take care when modifing an EF Civic it's addictive and the problem comes when you find yourself in Street Mod class running against worked WRX's with 3x the horsepower and twice the grip...
Not true - the WRX is in SM while the Civic is in SMF (for front wheel drive cars). Of course, if you were in central Florida you would be running against a certain 300+ hp Sentra.
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