Backup Cameras...mandatory?

link

"U.S. auto-safety regulators proposed requiring backup cameras on all new vehicles by 2014 to prevent drivers from backing over pedestrians, a rule that may cost as much as $2.7 billion."

A little less than 300 people get backed over every year - somehow people who back over people will be thrawted by having a camera.

So this looks like $2.7 Billion to save some fraction of 300 people. I've got an idea, either make all people 8 feet tall or make cars that aren't. I have no problem seeing out the rear of my '75 BMW. No camera needed. Discuss.

The experts have already weighed in on this topic!

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/nanny-state-wants-cameras/29295/page1/

How will a camera help if people won't look at their review mirror?

I think back alarms would be a more feasible option (think commercial trucks)

Well, the $2.7 Billion comes from a ~$150 camera and a ~$100 display- both of which I think are high, considering what is available RIGHT NOW.

And why is a back up camera so bad? Having seen what they are capable of, I'm pretty sure my next MIATA will have one. They are pretty sweet.

I've seen people complain about this in other car groups, and an not really sure what the beef is. It's a camera (like all new phones have) and a display (like all new phones have), but in a car. It's evil because of what?

Eric

ps- the fun part will be when you use the camera to look behind you when driving- putting the car into R, and freaking the driver behind you totally out.

alfadriver wrote: And why is a back up camera so bad? Having seen what they are capable of, I'm pretty sure my next MIATA will have one. They are pretty sweet. I've seen people complain about this in other car groups, and an not really sure what the beef is. It's a camera (like all new phones have) and a display (like all new phones have), but in a car. It's evil because of what? Eric ps- the fun part will be when you use the camera to look behind you when driving- putting the car into R, and freaking the driver behind you totally out.

Having worked on Caravans with this as an option, I find it a distraction to normal operation more then ever before. Call me old school, but I find better visibility out of having PROPERLY adjusted outside mirrors!!! That way I can see if I am going to smack the car on the side of me, with my front bumper, when backing up out of a parking space because I'm not staring at my damn radio.

Altho yes with electronically controlled transmissions it is fun to slam a trans into reverse while going forward above 12mph or so. Because it doesn't do ANYTHING. Saw that proven at one of my auto trans classes for work on a Commander or Liberty.

Brian

yep. making all sorts of "safety" contraptions mandatory has been discussed before. it just seems like no one who matters (political figures and car designers) are listening.

as for the cameras, i'm fine with it as an option. if you want it buy it. dont make everyone in america have to shell out the extra cash for it. i am just fine with turning my head around and spending the cash on something i want instead.

1988RedT2 wrote: The experts have already weighed in on this topic! http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/nanny-state-wants-cameras/29295/page1/

I KenBlocked it - didn't think to look through the off topic forum for a post on cars. Shoulda "knowed" better. I was worried when I followed your link that I would find that I had posted in the original thread a few days ago.

alfadriver wrote: And why is a back up camera so bad? Having seen what they are capable of, I'm pretty sure my next MIATA will have one. They are pretty sweet. I've seen people complain about this in other car groups, and an not really sure what the beef is. It's a camera (like all new phones have) and a display (like all new phones have), but in a car. It's evil because of what? Eric

If you want one in your car as an option great. Get one. I don't think cameras are evil - even if their function is make sure drivers are looking down at their center consoles while backing up. If they are so good why not make front view cameras mandatory and we could get rid of obsolete windshields all together. I have mirrors and a neck that is capable of letting my head turn to either side. These cameras are bandaids to poorly designed cars and nothing more.

My real complaint about them is making them mandatory. I find it repulsive.

TJ wrote: If you want one in your car as an option great.

EXACTLY. A friend has one in his Chrysler and it makes it nice when backing up to the trailer by yourself. You can see the ball. He loves it. It is great use of technology.

I saw one demoed on a Benz where there were no external mirrors - only cameras and there was a multi-view display that eliminated any blind spots. It was very cool.

I guess if the mandated whacko shape of the vehicle dictates a window or mirror cannot reach that area then a camera is the only way to meet the rules. It would be better if we could just change whacko rules that have silly ramifications when we need to but... that never happens.

Maybe they should put some good automotive engineers on the rule making committee before they paint themselves into a corner.

My number one issue with all these mandated things like this going on cars only raise the cost of the car to the consumer.
Most of those 300 were probably kids that an alarm wouldn't help anyway. What's wrong with looking behind your car before you get in the car in the first place. I do, just to check the condition of the car before I get in. There have been a couple times my car wasn't in the same condition as I parked it. Usually a hit&run or a flat tire but once someone tried to steal a wheel of my car and had the lugnuts neatly stacked in the hubcap next to the right rear of my car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ixNPplo-SU

I see nothing wrong with a backup camera to be used as a "supplement" to good old fashions smart driving...i.e. using your mirrors (properly adjusted) and looking behind you. The problem, IMHO, comes when people use it instead of proper driving technique.

Same could be said for a lot of the electronic nannys out there now. Electronic lane departure warning system and the blind spot detection systems. I can see some good uses for them. However, too many people will use them only because they're too busy sending a text message while eating a cheeseburger and talking to their kids in the backseat...all while running 75mph down a 4 lane highway. Maybe some common sense driving would help.

I just want to know who gets the contract for the cameras. Much of the push behind this was due to one case where a grandparent, after walking around his car, got in, found the keys, fired it up, shifted, and backed up over his grandchild. We've all seen how quickly toddlers can move, and, well, one did after he got in. I can't imagine the grief he feels. Which is not to say I endorse a mandatory backup camera at all. Accidents happen, by definition they are accidents--what happens if you back up with the camera on, but aren't looking at the screen?

Seems to me an audible warning would be much more effective.

And what happens when the camera's lens is covered in snow/slush/road grime and an accident happens. Who's going to be lliable? The auto maker for not having a prepetual cleaning mechanism, the camera manufacturer for "defective" device, the driver, or the parent.....

Yet another reason I can't see myself buying a new car. Ever.

Ranger50 wrote:

alfadriver wrote: And why is a back up camera so bad? Having seen what they are capable of, I'm pretty sure my next MIATA will have one. They are pretty sweet. I've seen people complain about this in other car groups, and an not really sure what the beef is. It's a camera (like all new phones have) and a display (like all new phones have), but in a car. It's evil because of what? Eric ps- the fun part will be when you use the camera to look behind you when driving- putting the car into R, and freaking the driver behind you totally out.

Having worked on Caravans with this as an option, I find it a distraction to normal operation more then ever before. Call me old school, but I find better visibility out of having PROPERLY adjusted outside mirrors!!! That way I can see if I am going to smack the car on the side of me, with my front bumper, when backing up out of a parking space because I'm not staring at my damn radio. Altho yes with electronically controlled transmissions it is fun to slam a trans into reverse while going forward above 12mph or so. Because it doesn't do ANYTHING. Saw that proven at one of my auto trans classes for work on a Commander or Liberty. Brian

Between your side mirrors and your rear view mirror, you can see below the rear window and the road? Like where the rear bumper is?

Didn't think so.

The cameras I've used, they show to the bumper, including the hitch. There are views that you can't see behind you regardless of the mirrors you have.

And since you think you can, I'm glad you don't dive anywhere near me.

TJ wrote:

alfadriver wrote: And why is a back up camera so bad? Having seen what they are capable of, I'm pretty sure my next MIATA will have one. They are pretty sweet. I've seen people complain about this in other car groups, and an not really sure what the beef is. It's a camera (like all new phones have) and a display (like all new phones have), but in a car. It's evil because of what? Eric

If you want one in your car as an option great. Get one. I don't think cameras are evil - even if their function is make sure drivers are looking down at their center consoles while backing up. If they are so good why not make front view cameras mandatory and we could get rid of obsolete windshields all together. I have mirrors and a neck that is capable of letting my head turn to either side. These cameras are bandaids to poorly designed cars and nothing more. My real complaint about them is making them mandatory. I find it repulsive.

Considering how many things are far more repulsive out there, this is a pretty lame fight. It's a supplument that works. Do you not like the CHMSL, too, since it's mandatory? Or white front lights, or bumpers, or catalysts, or- etc etc etc.

then again, so few of this board buy new cars, it does give one pause.

Eric

I think there aught to be a center mounted display as opposed to a rear view mirror, and a small camera. I would bet with LCD and whatnot, they can make the camera and display lighter than a rearview mirror.

Ounces equal pounds folks!

When will better driver education be mandatory? If you can't stay in your own lane, park your own car, remember to use your mirror, blah blah blah; you probably shouldn't be on the road to begin with.

MA$$hole wrote: When will better driver education be mandatory? If you can't stay in your own lane, park your own car, remember to use your mirror, blah blah blah; you probably shouldn't be on the road to begin with.

When you make it to be.

IIRC, we vote for the people who write the laws....

I always try to back in to a parking space if at all possible, more so if kids are present. I've backed over or into to much stuff.

$2.7 billion / 300 people = 9,000,000 per person.

I know some people I would sell for $9,000,000.

All I know is I'd love an IR rear camera/display to see exactly what is behind me at night while driving on the freeway, but that is another story.

It makes sense to put another video screen in peoples lives as the computer and telephone aren't enough yet!

alfadriver wrote: then again, so few of this board buy new cars, it does give one pause.

Well, you can't say were aren't voting with our dollars.

I can afford a new car - I just don't want anything I can afford. The one offering I do want - the Lotus Exige - has very little in the way of mandatory items due to its low volume exclusion. I wish I could "vote" for one.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

alfadriver wrote: then again, so few of this board buy new cars, it does give one pause.

Well, you can't say were aren't voting with our dollars. I can afford a new car - I just don't want anything I can afford. The one offering I do want - the Lotus Exige - has very little in the way of mandatory items due to its low volume exclusion. I wish I could "vote" for one.

Uh, for the US, there's no such thing.

Just sayin.

If I ever buy a new car I guaruntee it will have a backup camera? Why? Because they're just so convenient. Now that companies are combining these with back up sensors, parking your family cruiser in the garage will be much easier, making sure you clear the door tracks up front and the TR7 in the back.