Bad idea of the day: corvair

So after the challenge we will be starting on nect years car. 63 corvair 4 door.

Its REALLY rusty. Im not sure it's worth saving.

Regardless, bear with me.

Plan is challenge/utcc/one lap car.

The idea: take full 3400 drivetrain and suspension and cradle from a malibu. Stuff in place of the missing corvair drivetrain. Build 2x3 rails going to the front. Add another malibu cradle and suspension up there. Or something like that.

Is this mental? Anyone do something like this? Better idea?

For One Lap UTCC you need to be concerned about safety. Brakes, structure of the car, predictably. Going fast is probably the easiest part. For One Lap in particular it needs to be comfortable/practical/reliable enough that you don't want to light it on fire after the third day. I'm very intrigued. Starting with a rusty car actually gives you a bit more freedom, so that's a good thing.

Sounds like a great idea to me. The drivetrain from Ausyukun's Riviera would be great as well, as another great bad idea.

It's a throwaway car as-is, so I say not just yes but berkeley yes!

AngryCorvair wrote: It's a throwaway car as-is, so I say not just yes but berkeley yes!

It was $50 poorly spent. But gonna be fun!

And if i had the scratch right now, ashyuken would have it. 3800 supercharged would be a riot.

I thought about a 300m drivetrain to keep it mid engined, but id rather have a useful back seat.

In reply to mazdeuce:

Safety would be paramount. Followed secind by reliability and thirdly by comfort. Dunno if we can actually pull it off or not, but should be fun to try.

My thoughs went to essentially a 4 point roll bar bent to retain the back seat functionality and provide some structural integrity. Set the car up to run on 205/50/15 spec miata tires.

There have been at least a few Corvair front engine conversions:

I don't know specifics, but as you noted you will need to build some sort of frame for the front. The "frame" in an early Corvair goes forward via the rockers (which are likely rusted on yours) then turns inward behind the front wheels. As noted, you are probably better off just adding a new frame down the middle (ground clearance my be an issue if you want to keep it out of the cabin).

As you are likely aware, the early Corvair has the same bolt pattern as a lot of early Japanese cars:

Earlies have 4 lugs on a 4 1/2" (114.3mm) bolt circle. Other cars with that 4 on 4 1/2 pattern are:

• Acura Legend '86 to '90
• Chevy Nova, Chevy II '60 to '64
• Chevy Sprint '85 to '87
• Buick Special, Olds F-85 '61 to '63
• Datsun/Nissan, most RWD models to '89
• Dodge Colt '79 to '92
• Ford Falcon, Mustang (6 cyl) '60 to '73
• Ford Granada, Maverick '81 to '83
• Hyundai all years
• Infiniti G20 '91 - '96
• Infiniti M30 '90 - '92
• Mazda 323 '86 to '89
• Mazda 626, RX7 '83 to '87
• Mazda GLC '81 to '85
• Mazda RX-7 GSL/SE '84 to '88
• MGA, MGB, MGC all
• Mitsubishi, most 4 lug all years
• Nissan 240SX all 4 cyl
• Nissan Altima '93 to '01
• Olds - F-85 '61 to '63
• Plymouth Arrow, Sapporo '79 to '88
• Saab, all to '87
• Toyota, most RWD except PU and MR2 up to '85
• Triumph TR3 through TR6 all

I am assuming by 3400 you don't mean:

In reply to aircooled:

Gm 60*v6 3400. And in the back as god intended. But, youre absolutely right. No rickers left on ours. Hell, the roof has through rust in spots.

So, twin engined, am I reading this right? Maybe I'm confused but I see a pair of FWD cradles in this thing so I have to be reading this right.

Ah, OK. So FWD set in the back seat. Yes, much better.

Strangely that is not popular, but there was one guy who put a Northstar V8 in the back of a late (he had to widen the rear)

BTW - A MazdaSpeed3 has almost exactly the same wheel track as a late Corvair (!)

Check out this site for some Corvair related AutoX setup info (where the wheel info came from):

http://autoxer.skiblack.com/index.html

Single engine. Using a pair of cradles for the suspension and such.

Now that im thinking more, probably a much better front suspension to graft than a malibu.

But rear engined, water cooled, full frame, 4 wheel dics, 4 door corvair.

aircooled wrote: Ah, OK. So FWD set in the back seat. Yes, much better. Strangely that is not popular, but there was one guy who put a Northstar V8 in the back of a late (he had to widen the rear) BTW - A MazdaSpeed3 has almost exactly the same wheel track as a late Corvair (!)

Northstar!!!!!!!!

Holy crap. Much better idea. Probably wouldn't fit though. Not and keep the back seat.

This is not the car I was thinking about, but clearly someone else has done the FWD V8 back seat thing:

(this is a late car BTW)

Are you talking about hanging the motor out the back?

It's been done a few times with V8's (in late models at least), but does require some sort specialized trans / bellhousing adapter. Sounds like you are using the Malibu trans though.

In reply to Dusterbd13:

If you're going Cadillac go big. 500 engine with a THM425 trans to kept it mid/rear engined. Don't judge me cause you already said it was a bad idea from the beginning.

In reply to aircooled:

I was kinda hoping the 60* would fit in the given space. Right between the tires. Use the malibu automatic and accessories. Maybe even the malibu hvac and full wiring harness.

I have a couple questions.

First, why the malibu 3400 engine in particular? Is it just the power/size/cheapness ratio, or do you already have one so you want to use it, or is there some other special reason I'm not seeing?

Second, why mess with putting a malibu cradle in the front? Why not leave the corvair front suspension alone, and just fix what needs fixed? The macstrut front end is ok at everything but not great at anything, and adding the strut towers to the car seems like it would be a huge pain.

Also you may find this to be helpful

This

in the early 70's A guy had a caddy 425 tranny w/engine in back.he used the whole caddy suspension welded in the rear and raced it at Road Atlanta, well he stuffed it into the wall past the bridge where you turn right to enter the Front Straight. It was damn Fast. those early 'Vairs had a Swing axel set up like early VW's the later were full Independent and would handle Incredable. the front of the early cars is really the same as RWD Starfire's and Tempest. If it were me I would use the whole G-body Frame and mount your FWD set-up in back,that way it could be built and almost finished before setting the Body down over it.

In reply to gearheadmb:

Leaving the front suspension alone hadn't really crossed my mind, but isnt a bad idea assuming that theres enough structure left. Id need to research what needs upgrades and fixed for handling and brakes though.

The malibu is chosen for its availability cheap. Gran prix, montecarlo, buick, etc are all fair game. Its a matter of availability and cheap and 3x00 60*v6. Id really love to score a 3500 minivan. Seems like it would be the best bang for the buck.

In reply to GTXVette:

A g body or s10 frame have crossed my mind. Problem is that they are actually worth money now, and getting the frame channeled into the body looks like a giant undertaking.

Really not hard to set on the frame but I would recommend the G-Body frame that is How we did it In the 'Ol Days setting Bodies on 55 chevy frames then early Chevelle frames. then camaro's came along and folks used them until they figured out G frames will handle as well. I've seen what you can do, and there are tons of front end Parts for them/Dropped spindles and all. SADLY I just Scrapped some Screw jacks for front AND rear but you can make them. Dude Spend the winter Really finishing the amc that would be the easy button and is WAY cooler (to me)

You are going to name it Ralph, not Mr. Nader?

If you mount the engine in the back seat the driver seat will put you uncomfortably close to the non folding steering wheel column.

I vote for the AMC.

was going to suggest that you drop the Corvair on a cosmetically challenged Boxter chassis. The problem is that the 13" wheelbase mis-match would be an issue; would have to cut the Boxter into two or three pieces and stitch it all together. Don't do that.

Just some powertrain ideas:

Saturn LLO (light)

Oldsmobile Quad-4 (tough bottom end)

Volkswagen W8 (n/a Veyron engine cut in half, what's not to love?)

VW transaxle and a Kennedy adapter to a Rotary...

or

A manual transaxle from a Contour and 3.4 V8 SHO with the cam shaft welded up.

EDIT: F2T!!!!!!!

Lets not forget that this is for the challenge. There are some neat ideas here but many arent close to challenge budget.