Breaking News: ECM to start hoarding manual transmission cars even more aggressively in the near future. "You can have my shifter when you pry it from my cold dead hands!!"
Breaking News: ECM to start hoarding manual transmission cars even more aggressively in the near future. "You can have my shifter when you pry it from my cold dead hands!!"
The reality of just how rare manual transmissions are becoming has really sunk in for me over the last couple of months at work.
I'm moving brand new cars around on a daily basis and would have been in close to 1000 different cars since the start of the year, my manual count is about 20.....
I don't like the look of the manual-less future 
I'm on the fence about this. The MS3 came out of cold storage today with some upgrades and I fell in love with driving it all over again. It seems like it would be lacking... something intangible (soul maybe?) if it were an automatic.
I could deal with the cute ute being auto and the X-Terra already is but they serve a different purpose.
All that said, I drove to Indianapolis a couple weeks ago in a CX-5. I would absolutely not attempt that in the MS3 or another manual car. I'm so over city traffic with manuals, which explains why I live out in banjo country.
rslifkin wrote:penultimeta wrote: That said, automated vehicles scare the bejeezus out of me not only secondary to the very really threat of unmitigated AI (if you don't believe me talk to Elon Musk, Stephen Hawking, or Bill Gates), but also the threat of constant monitoring by regulatory agencies and corporations. I'll wear my tin foil hat in the corner, thanks.And the idea that human driving may be pretty much banned at some point. See the movie "I, Robot" for that one...
Ironically, insurance companies may finally be on our side. No need for auto insurance once the human element has been phased out.
Damnit Gameboy, did you have to bring this topic up again?
Every few months this damned "debate" on manual vs automatic comes up and outside of religion, politics or oil brands, it's one of the most divisive topics around this place.
Drive whatever the hell you want, none of us truly cares that much as long as you drive it well.
Trackmouse wrote:Shawn_D wrote:The answer of course is the no lift shiftJerry From LA wrote: In reply to Shawn_D: The other problem is the manual version tests dirtier than the autobox. The throttle release between shifts creates a momentary overrich condition that has to be dealt with by the computer. The autobox shifts faster and with more consistency due to lack of human intervention.That over-rich condition could be mitigated by programming, just as programming can be used to blip the throttle between shifts. Agreed about the shift speed and consistency.
Could work with the right exhaust, all the excess fuel will burn with a bang at the exhaust tip!
Stefan wrote: Damnit Gameboy, did you have to bring this topic up again? Every few months this damned "debate" on manual vs automatic comes up and outside of religion, politics or oil brands, it's one of the most divisive topics around this place. Drive whatever the hell you want, none of us truly cares that much as long as you drive it well.
The problem is, the choice to "drive whatever the hell you want" is slowly being removed.
none of us truly cares that much as long as you drive it well.
That's totally not true! Every time i bring up the fact that i've never hurt anyone while behind the wheel in 18 years and counting, it doesn't stop people from hating on whatever facet of my driving i'm defending or espousing. 
My civic may be my last stick shift DD.
I blame the dealers, they don't order manual. My buddy was looking for a new m3 a few years back and none of the local dealers had any on the lot. He was in South Florida and ended up getting one out of Arizona I think.
4cylndrfury wrote: But, knowing now that I was potentially making a decision with a 10 year purchase cycle (5 years of payments on this car, and then 5 more when the Cruze is paid off, and SWMBO gets a new DD), I wouldve thought harder about what I was getting.
You are talking only about the Cruze? Right?
pimpm3 wrote: I blame the dealers, they don't order manual. My buddy was looking for a new m3 a few years back and none of the local dealers had any on the lot. He was in South Florida and ended up getting one out of Arizona I think.
It's not the dealers, it's the manufacturers. At work we get the cars before they go out to the dealers and the manuals are just not there for the dealers to order. Seriously, if 5% of what comes through the yard was manual you'd be lucky. My experience so far this year is about 2%
If I can have my way I will only ever own manuals. Only exception would be for a tow-pig. Otherwise, you can take away my manuals when you pry them from my cold dead hands.
I like manuals. My Forester XT is a manual, and I searched for a while to find one. That said, I'm getting older, and I find myself enjoying the no-fuss V8 and automatic in my 4Runner for driving around the city a bit more than rowing my own. The 4Runner is also quieter. It makes for less exhausting times in stop and go traffic.
My next car will probably be something with a DSG in it, unless I wind up with a Miata.
GameboyRMH wrote: Bad news: Manual gearboxes are now technologically inferior. All of them.
I don't often speak in absolutes...But never take anything said by sales and marketing at face value.
rslifkin wrote:Shawn_D wrote:And it typically is. That's why most modern cars feel like they have a bit of a throttle hang when you let off the throttle. It's the computer slowly closing the throttle the last bit rather than slamming it closed.Jerry From LA wrote: In reply to Shawn_D: The other problem is the manual version tests dirtier than the autobox. The throttle release between shifts creates a momentary overrich condition that has to be dealt with by the computer. The autobox shifts faster and with more consistency due to lack of human intervention.That over-rich condition could be mitigated by programming, just as programming can be used to blip the throttle between shifts. Agreed about the shift speed and consistency.
And that is what makes manual transmissions in modern cars annoying. People can wring their hands about "driver interaction" but when the controls have to be so sleazy-sloppy in order to clean up the herky jerky engine outputs, any sense of "connectedness to the car" is imaginary.
On a carbureted 1600cc coupe? Sure thing! But that isn't the kind of car sold anymore.
An output of 450 hp and 450 lb-ft is about the limit of what a manual tranny can handle without impacting long-term durability, Quintus said.
Why? That's the limit of a currently available manual, or that's the upper limit of what can be created? Because I don't believe the latter.
ProDarwin wrote:An output of 450 hp and 450 lb-ft is about the limit of what a manual tranny can handle without impacting long-term durability, Quintus said.Why? That's the limit of a currently available manual, or that's the upper limit of what can be created? Because I don't believe the latter.
Certainly not the limit of what can be created. There's plenty of semi trucks with manuals handling 1500 lb-ft...
It's probably more of a practical limit, imposed by the space available for a gearbox in a passenger car, the prices non-supercar buyers are willing to pay for a gearbox, and the fact that a straight-cut gearbox will never be considered acceptable in anything but a supercar or race car. Certainly not in a "sports-luxury" car.
daeman wrote:pimpm3 wrote: I blame the dealers, they don't order manual. My buddy was looking for a new m3 a few years back and none of the local dealers had any on the lot. He was in South Florida and ended up getting one out of Arizona I think.It's not the dealers, it's the manufacturers. At work we get the cars before they go out to the dealers and the manuals are just not there for the dealers to order. Seriously, if 5% of what comes through the yard was manual you'd be lucky. My experience so far this year is about 2%
Blame the consumer. Why should a manufacturer make cars to a market where they can't make money?
Some of us actually went to a dealer and bought NEW manual cars. Or leased them (I've done both).
Surely a manual can be just as compact as an auto that handles those power levels? Yes, they will only sell 1/50th the quantity, so costs would be higher...
They could fix that problem with one phone call to Tremec. I really don't buy their claims of inferior shift quality for the Michigan gearboxes. BMW direct-shift-linkage manuals have more slop in them than my cable-shifted Accord did.
The TR6070 weighs 143 lbs - for the Germans, that's 65 kg. Tremec 6070 specifications. At most that's 20 kg more than the Getrags they use.
I think they don't want to tell their true-blue driver's car customers that they needed a critical part of their German-engineered burners to be American.
rslifkin wrote:ProDarwin wrote:Certainly not the limit of what can be created. There's plenty of semi trucks with manuals handling 1500 lb-ft...An output of 450 hp and 450 lb-ft is about the limit of what a manual tranny can handle without impacting long-term durability, Quintus said.Why? That's the limit of a currently available manual, or that's the upper limit of what can be created? Because I don't believe the latter.
And they shift like trucks.
Most T56s shift like trucks, too.
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