Be careful welding around brake cleaner

I'm a fan of Brew Bike. I dig their cool bike frames.

I noticed this on their site, too: an article about the dangers of welding around brake cleaner.

Anyway, hope this helps.

Yeah, that's why I and all of my buddies use the non-chlorinated stuff for this sort of application. Tetrachloroethylene is some incredibly nasty stuff.

As far as I can tell, it can't be said enough. I'm scared to think how likely I'd have been to do that at some point if I hadn't stumbled into the same mentions.

May I also add checking out the hot water heater? Friend of mine working on the MG in his family garage, Brake Cleen drifted along the ground and under the gas fired hot water heater. Burned the house down, luckily the only injury was the family dog.

Dan

Most of the gassing deaths in WW1 were caused by phosgene, and it actually has very little smell by itself: You can only smell it when the concentration is more than high enough to kill you:

http://www.compoundchem.com/2014/05/17/chemical-warfare-ww1/

The chlorine smell in the article was just coincidental as that would've been another chemical in the brake cleaner.

Didn't a scare happen to Per a long time ago?

As a note, this is only a concern with chlorinated brake cleaner. So use non-chlorinated for welding prep, etc.

However, for other stuff, the chlorinated brake cleaner works better. And it's not flammable (the non-chlorinated burns like carb cleaner).

Welding can create some interesting fumes, should only be welding metal, not other stuff, just clean metal. But how often do we not have nice clean metal and weld anyhow? There is almost always some paint or something, which is bad enough. After getting it clean, we really should let it dry, he welded into a area that was still wet with chemicals. The chemicals mixed with heat and the welding gas, not a good experiment.

We should really try using less toxic stuff, simple green and other less toxic stuff might be less effective, but for some stuff it works just fine. Try the less toxic stuff first, use the more toxic stuff only when really needed and well ventilated. Its not just the fumes, we absorb this stuff in our skin as well, how often do we really use gloves.... After cleaning with the toxic stuff, why not give it a cleaning with some of the non-toxic stuff, give it a nice spray down, rinse wash off the bad stuff.

If you do get hurt, beyond just a little cut or tiny burn, don't delay help. If he had gotten help right away, the recovery might have been quicker and less long term damage. Lets all have fun but ensure we continue to have fun!

I don't use brake clean to prep my metal for welding. I either use lacquer thinner, acetone, or starter fluid (I.E. ether). The last item is highly flammable but so is everything else mentioned. It goes without saying that when ever you are welding you should have good ventilation but not so much that the moving air will upset your shielding gas if using MIG or TIG.

Anyone who has been welding for a while has heard this story. Also when welding any galvanized steel either clean the zinc off or live with the splatter and poor welds but in any case don't breath in the gases given off from the weld arc. It won't kill you but will make you sick. A link to more info on this: http://www.bakersgas.com/weldmyworld/2011/12/03/side-effects-welding-galvanized-steel/

Thanks for sharing this article, I am headed out to the garage to do some welding over lunch. I can't think of how many times I take this for granted and just use whatever is available to wipe the pieces clean and then weld them. I'll definitely take a closer look and be more careful going forward!

Muriatic acid will remove galvanized, zinc and cadmium as well as rust. Only in well ventilated area preferably outside, dip parts or brush on and walk away, don't stand downwind either, it'll kick your ass. If you see white in the weld and 'white feathers' in the air you got a dose. I'd rather strip the plating in acid than grind it off. It's clean down to the pores. Good water rinse neutralizes the acid. Excellent steel weld prep for TIG also. Steel only, never aluminum.

One of the reasons I don't use Argon mix for my MIG. Straight CO2 doesn't provide much purchase for weird reactions.

rslifkin wrote: As a note, this is only a concern with chlorinated brake cleaner. So use non-chlorinated for welding prep, etc. However, for other stuff, the chlorinated brake cleaner works better. And it's not flammable (the non-chlorinated burns like carb cleaner).

The non-chlorinated stuff (which is the only kind they're allowed to sell, here in CA) is basically acetone and assorted hydrocarbons, so yeah. :)

JBasham wrote: One of the reasons I don't use Argon mix for my MIG. Straight CO2 doesn't provide much purchase for weird reactions.

Argon is a noble gas, it's even less reactive then CO2.

Not sure where they're gettign argon from, the decomposition occurs due to the intense UV radiation of a welding arc. It will happen regardless of shielding gas used.

BrokenYugo wrote: Not sure where they're gettign argon from, the decomposition occurs due to the intense UV radiation of a welding arc. It will happen regardless of shielding gas used.

You're not going to decompose Argon with UV light. It's a monatomic noble gas -- the only way to break it down further involves nuclear fission. :)

In reply to codrus:

I think you misunderstood me, the article mentions argon as being involved in chlorinated hydrocarbons turning into phosgene, it isn't (what with argon being noble and all), the reaction is just chlorinated hydrocarbons+UV>phosgene.

Steve 'brewdude' Garn said: After reading about Hydrogen Chloride and then started researching phosgene. The chemical in the brake cleaner is Tetrachloroethylene. When this chemical is exposed with excessive heat and argon (used in MIG and TIG welding) it also produces phosgene.

BrokenYugo wrote: In reply to codrus: I think you misunderstood me, the article mentions argon as being involved in chlorinated hydrocarbons turning into phosgene, it isn't (what with argon being noble and all), the reaction is just chlorinated hydrocarbons+UV>phosgene.

Steve 'brewdude' Garn said: After reading about Hydrogen Chloride and then started researching phosgene. The chemical in the brake cleaner is Tetrachloroethylene. When this chemical is exposed with excessive heat and argon (used in MIG and TIG welding) it also produces phosgene.

OK, sorry.

Yeah, once you have free halogens like chlorine and fluorine floating around they're going to make bad things, the only way to avoid it is to not have them there in the first place.

Wow! Amazing how fast your life can get turned upside down when your health takes a whack. I hope he recovers from this.

It's not just welding you have to be careful of. Years ago I was doing the brakes on my Dad's van and since it was January I had a salamander heater going in a attempt to stay warm.

I hosed down the new rotors with brake clean like I always do and, shortly thereafter I started to cough a little and my throat felt funny. It just got worse from there, I couldn't stop coughing.

For some reason my Dad was unaffected (Being a smoker and Pipefitter for many years may have built his tolerance to such things). My brother came in the shop and started coughing immediately. So we shut off the salamander, opened the doors and went outside.

We figured that the heater was picking up the fumes and burning them, but it wasn't until a few years later I heard that brake cleaner and welding can cause phosgene gas.

That was the last time I'll ever use chlorinated brake cleaner that's for sure!