I'm welding in new wheel arches on m 01 f250. I've bought the replacement panels and then went to the local auto body store and priced out all the materials needed for the job and I'm up to $600 for it all.
He recommended
- quart Evercoat short strand body filler for the first coat
- gallon Light weight body filler for the top coat
-gallon Epoxy Primer
-quart of Paint/Clear
-solvent, sandpaper, and other misc supplies.
I still would have to find a paint gun, and the equipment to actually spray the paint. My biggest question is how much paint is actually needed? I don't plan on spraying the whole bedsides, but that would be worst case scenario. Then do I need both types of body filler?
Would it be worth looking into doing it with the DIY filled aerosol cans? I know this would be more expensive per ounce, but wouldn't have a bunch of left over paint.
My end goal is that the rust is fixed, and it's not noticable that it was patched, but it doesn't have to be absoluty perfect. (which it won't be lol).
Thougts? Advice?
I would paint the whole bed sides. I think it would be hard to blend the new paint into the old paint. I've gotten good results with the Harbor Freight HVLP guns. I think they are around $15.00 or less, cheap enough to throw away when you're done.
Once you are 600 to fix the old bed. There are places that sell new take off beds for not much more than 1k. Any chance your truck is white?
In reply to cdowd (Forum Supporter) :
That was my other thought hut forgot to include it. I need to look into finding a different bed for it. The truck is black, so the opposite of white!
In reply to NBraun :
Where you at? We may have some stuff local.
In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :
South dakota, so I don't think very local.
That ebay link would be perfect. Unfortunately my truck is an 01, so not quite usable.
An artfully taped band of box liner covers a whole lot of inadequate body work skills.
Just sayin', plus,I have the t-shirt...
ddavidv
UltimaDork
8/19/22 8:24 a.m.
Patch panels for bedsides: never has a more frustrating product been made.
After doing two trucks at our body shop I made the command decision we would never do any more. Now we do complete bedsides or you take it somewhere else. The amount of labor it took to try to make those look invisible was massive. Whipping bedsides on/off was actually much faster. Plus, we could then address the rotten wheelhouses you're otherwise just going to cover up/not weld to because they are half gone.
And yes, I would plan on painting the entire bedside.
In reply to ddavidv :
Well that's certainly a bummer to hear. I did buy the wheelhouse panel as well, because they'll need fixing too.
Can I ask why they we're so labor intensive compared to a panel on a car?
I have made patch panels from sheet steel (no panels available for a Toyota T100), welded them in, and sprayed with color match rattle cans. Rolled the truck out of the garage. Took one look in the sunlight and rolled it right back into the garage. I was able to get it blended well enough that you couldn't see the repair unless you were really up close and looking for it.
The most important thing with a repair like this is to know how good you need it to be. This is a 20 year old truck. Does it need to stay rust free for 10 years? If so, you probably don't want to do patches. 2 or 3 years? Let her rip.
FWIW, I need to do rear wheel arches on my 2001 F250. A previous owner sprayed bedliner along the wheel arches and bottom of the bed and cab. I'll probably do the same when I'm done. It looks good enough for me and won't require as much effort.
In reply to bigeyedfish :
Well, I don't plan on selling the truck, so if I need to do it the "right" way, that's fine with me. On the other hand, it's a farm truck and gets used as such. I just really hate seeing the rust, and want to fix it before it's any worse.
I would be up to doing the bed liner idea, but the rust is just about to the body line on the arch, so not exactly sure how to weld the patch in and not have it look absolutely awful.
Just out of curiosity. What would be the best option for, stop the rust and make it look not awful while not spending a bunch of money on a 20 year old truck?
NOHOME
MegaDork
8/19/22 10:18 a.m.
If it needs to look good, then it is actually a rather challenging repair.
If you want it to remain rust free for any amount of time, you would need to butt-weld the repair panel in place and sand.seal both sides of the weld.
Then you are left with the warp that needs to be sorted out. A better way out of this might be to use body panel adhesive and glue the patch on. Bonus points if you can do a flange and set the panel flush
The fiberglass filler actually has some strength in it and will cover the weld seam and not crack. Regular body-fill is just pancake make-up for cars.
Epoxy is expensive and a gallon will cover the entire truck. I would be looking for the Evercoat super fill Direct To Metal ( DTM) product and skip the epoxy and body fill steps. This stuff is basically spray on bodyfill that can go on bare metal and sand to a paintable surface if you are good with 400 finish.
I would cut and flange the truck to accept the patch. Then glue the patch into the flange with enough to make sure that some glue oozed out the edge. Smooth the glue on the surface so it acts like a filler/seam sealer
Let it cure and sand the edge smooth
HIt it with the Evercoat spray filler ( not sure what gun spec you will need for this but will require a BIG nozzle)
Keep spraying and sanding until you are happy with the finish.
Paint with single stage paint. Do the whole bedside. Quart should be enough.
https://evercoat.com/images/ePIM/original/TDS_100730_SUPER_BUILD_4to1_Primer_2_2015_EN.pdf
NOHOME said:
If it needs to look good, then it is actually a rather challenging repair.
If you want it to remain rust free for any amount of time, you would need to butt-weld the repair panel in place and sand.seal both sides of the weld.
Then you are left with the warp that needs to be sorted out. A better way out of this might be to use body panel adhesive and glue the patch on. Bonus points if you can do a flange and set the panel flush
The fiberglass filler actually has some strength in it and will cover the weld seam and not crack. Regular body-fill is just pancake make-up for cars.
Epoxy is expensive and a gallon will cover the entire truck. I would be looking for the Evercoat super fill Direct To Metal ( DTM) product and skip the epoxy and body fill steps. This stuff is basically spray on bodyfill that can go on bare metal and sand to a paintable surface if you are good with 400 finish.
I would cut and flange the truck to accept the patch. Then glue the patch into the flange with enough to make sure that some glue oozed out the edge. Smooth the glue on the surface so it acts like a filler/seam sealer
Let it cure and sand the edge smooth
HIt it with the Evercoat spray filler ( not sure what gun spec you will need for this but will require a BIG nozzle)
Keep spraying and sanding until you are happy with the finish.
Paint with single stage paint. Do the whole bedside. Quart should be enough.
https://evercoat.com/images/ePIM/original/TDS_100730_SUPER_BUILD_4to1_Primer_2_2015_EN.pdf
I really like this idea. I am curious, though. The product you linked is a polyester filler. I am concerned since I'm doing the work outside that moisture would be a problem. If this really is the best option, then I'm sure I could find a garage to do it in though.
NOHOME
MegaDork
8/19/22 12:58 p.m.
In reply to NBraun :
I would not want any of the work to get wet during the job, so if you are talking rain exposure, then I would be working inside anyways.
Disclaimer: The Evercoat product I linked is relatively new to the market, The one big difference is that is is usable on bare metal. I have yet to use it but certainly would.
On a small job like thiw, the normal process would be"
Spray epoxy on repair, scuff and use fiberglass filler, sand and use bodyfill, spray on high build, sand and apply sealer, paint.
With the method I describe, it would be sand panel adhesive as best as possible, spray high fill primer, sand smooth (repeat as needed) finish to 400 and paint
NBraun said:
In reply to cdowd (Forum Supporter) :
That was my other thought hut forgot to include it. I need to look into finding a different bed for it. The truck is black, so the opposite of white!
Black is black. So no problem matching it. But paint the whole side!! Don't try to cheap out or it will give everybody lines to remind them that you did cheap out.
Save money wherever you can. But some things like trying to patch in paint is not one area it can be done.
For a farm truck, stop the rust from spreading then throw some fender flares on it. Really cheap on fleabay.
SPG123
HalfDork
8/19/22 11:50 p.m.
I painted this LTD hood with parts store cans last weekend. It was a booger to do as the car was poorly repainted after its service with the state police in the 80s. Lots of sanding! Filler primer, sanded again, two cans duplicolor. two big cans clear, lots more sanding, compound, polish. And the result is way better than it was. but clearly not a pro [job
STM317
PowerDork
8/20/22 11:46 a.m.
NBraun said:
Just out of curiosity. What would be the best option for, stop the rust and make it look not awful while not spending a bunch of money on a 20 year old truck?
POR-15 on the rust, then bolt on flares. You can find a set of flares for under $200 new.
If you're replacing metal, I'd also suggest just getting full replacement bedsides. It will cost more, but it will save you tons of time, is much less likely to just rust through in a couple of years, and will probably turn out better too.
ddavidv
UltimaDork
8/21/22 8:32 a.m.
That looks like a Super Duty bed. It's days are numbered already. The cross sills under the floor rot out and eventually take the floor with them. We stopped trying to fix those for customers and just insisted they replace the bed with one from Texas or somewhere out west.
As to why patch panels suck...trying to hide the seams is nigh impossible for even a good body tech. It's a ton of seam welding, which can easily warp the existing panel. Lots of welding, grinding, massive amounts of filler, hours of sanding and then...maybe...you might not be able to see the patch when you are done.
By contrast, bedsides are spot welded on around the perimeter. Just grinding a bit of finish to the welds may be necessary. I'd hand a job like that to my one tech and he'd have the old bedside cut off and the new one clamped on before lunch. The patch panel? Requires careful measuring and cutting. It would take most of the day.
