Best car for stock class rwd road racing? (Time Attack Enthusiast)

I don't need another track-only car but would like to have a very competitive car to run some time attack events. The enthusiast class allows some mods but beingin Cali, the engine mods are limited to smog-legal and I want something dependable.

Ideally I'll find something already built but am okay putting something together. Would love to spend under $25 but maybe up to $35.

Cars I've thought about: Cayman, Carrera, z06, Elise, s2000.

I have always told people that bang for your buck, you can't beat a vette. I am having a hard time escaping the stigma but would do it. Just wanted to know if I'm missing any and what to look [out] for.

I'm in no hurry but if the right one popped up I'd be looking at it.

I've seen some early Dodge Vipers in the mid-$30s. Not sure how good they are around a road course, but it's probably worth exploring.

The E46 M3 and C5 Z06 are probably the most rational starting points for what you're looking to do.

Did you see Pimpin3's Vette for sale, You could bank some of that money for future mods or emission repair If he removed anything you would need in California.

Time attack recipe seems to be:
1. As much tire as is legally possible.
2. Tremendous power.
3. As much experimental aero as you can dream up.
Watching NASA TT, tires seem to be the single biggest factor, so make sure you can optimize them to the rules, and go from there.

IMHO, look at the pointy end of a race, and how much relative work needs to be done to be at that pointy end.

Porsche direct sells cars to be there.

Corvettes are pretty darned close to be there out of the box.

For most of it's life, Vipers are just barely behind the 'vettes- and in many of those years, they were better with fewer changes.

For the class they run in, I can't think of an S2000 being at the front. OTOH, Miatas have been generally at the pointy end of their class- but with more work than a Vette or a Viper.

All in all, I'd more look at the company that sells race cars direct to consumers- Porsche. Whatever car you like of theirs, but the GT3 or GT4 package would be a good start.

(and while I know that Mustangs do well, I've also been to one of the shops that prep them. It's cool and all, but I personally don't have the same feeling as I would a P car)

Are brakes an issue in time attack? E46 M3s need help in that area before 10 minutes of hard track use. C5s as well I'm told. Both can be improved in the aftermarket but if "stock" is your goal....

Miata is always the answer, FM visit as needed.

You can always go faster with good brakes, especially as grip increases through tires and aero.

I have a '99 FRC C5 that I use for track days. Has 440 rwhp. You will need to upgrade the radiator and oil cooling capacity. You will need to upgrade the front brakes. I'm running 315 square setup, AP Racing endurance front brakes and a DeWitts radiator and separate oil cooler. Car is way faster than I am. Water never gets over 220 and oil stays below 230. That's in hot and humid Florida.

You may have wanted to specify that you didn't want a Miata, because you know that people are going to suggest Miata, but you would probably still have a suggestion of a miata, even if you put "don't want a miata". If you can afford a vette, I would recommend it because of the cool american factor. From my outside view of time attack folks, they take it to the track and then next track event they have new mods. I see very few people keeps things stock.

Sub 35K and competitive is going to be really really hard. The guys in California that run time attack are not screwing around and you are going to get eaten alive at that price point. Enthusiast should be tire size limited sub 295 and MSRP under 45K when new so no Vette.

You would be in modified with cars with the Vette and yeah you are not going to come anywhere close to the top 50% of cars in that class just on suspension components alone never mine the extra aero and power depending on the region. Mine has been classed there and yeah I am not even sure I could run in the top 10% just on construction and power to weight.

I'd look around at a couple of the major tuners and see who has CARB legal mods.

The GTO, FRS, and Mustang seems to be the contenders in the Global Time Attack Enthusiast RWD class and they're all pretty well supported by the aftermarket and have 50 state legal hard parts.

The0retical wrote: I'd look around at a couple of the major tuners and see who has CARB legal mods. The GTO, FRS, and Mustang seems to be the contenders in the Global Time Attack Enthusiast RWD class and they're all pretty well supported by the aftermarket and have 50 state legal hard parts.

Yes, and there is nowhere any room in his budget to make one an FR-S/BRZ competitive.

The longblock/turbo/fuel setup just to make enough power alone is going to be north of $20k. And then the transmission is going to die, along with the diff and stock axles.

Time Attack is NOT in any way, shape, or form something you'll be competitive in with a small budget.

I read through the rules and did not see anything about a msrp limit but that would make sense.

To be at the front you definitely need power so it would seem. Otherwise a Miata ftw.

I have sent an email asking for some clarity about msrp, as well as engine mods allowed as it says nothing about even cai's or exhausts (at least that I could find) but it allows some relatively unstock things like modifying strut mounts.

I had forgot to include m3's on my list.

Looks like several races have mustangs out front. But it also looks like this class isn't that terribly contested so maybe I'm overthinking it :)

After reading the rules for the GTA Enthusiast class, it looks like you basically can't do ANYTHING except aero and single adjustable shocks. There's zero allowance for engine mods (not even a drop-in filter!?!?! WTF?). No springs, bushings, bars... nada. And a rather restrictive tire allowance, which doesn't really matter since you aren't allowed alternate wheels anyway.

So I think you're basically left with looking for something that you can get the largest tire allowed by the configuration onto. C5Z or S2000CR seem to be in the wheelhouse. You'd have to downsize tires on the Z06, but they work fairly well with skinnier than standard tires. Sadly you have to run 220s, which takes you out of RE71R territory.

Honestly the trickiest part of that class will be finding one stock enough to start with. Unless I'm reading the rules wrong, there's just no allowances for any mods beyond aero stuff on the outside. So you'll need to find something with OEM exhaust and intake, or find that stuff and retrofit it.

jfryjfry wrote: allows some relatively unstock things like modifying strut mounts.

Yeah. It says you can modify strut mounts to facilitate camber plate installation, but doesn't say you can install camber plates. Uh, what?

In reply to JG Pasterjak:

Ok... so it wasn't just me... and people complain about SCCA rules...

link to rules PDF here

Who still makes 220 tires?

maj75 wrote: I have a '99 FRC C5 that I use for track days. Has 440 rwhp. You will need to upgrade the radiator and oil cooling capacity. You will need to upgrade the front brakes. I'm running 315 square setup, AP Racing endurance front brakes and a DeWitts radiator and separate oil cooler. Car is way faster than I am. Water never gets over 220 and oil stays below 230. That's in hot and humid Florida.

This was going to be my suggestion. C5 or newer Vette with bolt ons, brakes, cooling, and tires is good at getting most people 99% of the way there and pretty darn reliably.

Ian F wrote: In reply to JG Pasterjak: Ok... so it wasn't just me... and people complain about SCCA rules... link to rules PDF here Who still makes 220 tires?

Yeah, there's literally no allowances for any kind of performance mods. Does anyone actually know the prep rules for this series?

I think I'd look at what car might want if you were running the limited class and work backward. That way you don't start in a car that wouldn't be competitive as you move up in classes.

NOT A TA wrote: I think I'd look at what car might want if you were running the limited class and work backward. That way you don't start in a car that wouldn't be competitive as you move up in classes.

Wow. Even that barely helps. This is a terrible, terrible ruleset. Even according to their Limited class rules, you're not allowed to substitute components except a wholesale swap from an equivalent OEM (Cobra IRS into rear of stick-axle SN95, for example). So I can't change springs or bushings, but I somehow need to find a complete alternate suspension and subframe to bolt in?

So confused.

I got a response back that read (in its entirety): There's no MSRP or power adder/modification limitation in any class. The limitations per class are clearly stated in the rules.

So I guess you can do anything you want unless addressed in the rules (which is opposite of what you usually run into).

Time attack is a series that is run on road courses for time only. So while maybe a Miata would be as fast as a vette on an Autox course, on a road course you definitely need more power to be competitive.

For us in california, the rules stating that it has to be driven to the track would imply to me that it has to be street legal, and therefore smog legal. Unless willing to dump a lot of $$ and time into a motor swap and jumping through the hoops to make it smog legal, buying a car that makes good power from the factory is the way to go.

I had sent two inquiries (one through their web site and a separate email) and the second response was much more friendly and basically said that their classes are just tire classes.

So.... in the pursuit of reliability, ease of maintenance/repair and fast laps, I think I'm looking for something in that previous list....

Anyone know of anything Cali smog legal for sale??? ;)

My guess is that this is an "Everything is allowed until the rules ban it" sort of rulebook - which is generally a very bad approach when it comes to racing.

In reply to MadScientistMatt:

I dunno... the can-ams of the 60s were pretty incredible.

Sounds like a V8 powered Exocet or Catfish with lots of aero and crap tires would meet the letter of the rules.

A FFR Daytona or GTR would be much more fun, but not exactly budget friendly.

jfryjfry wrote: I got a response back that read (in its entirety): There's no MSRP or power adder/modification limitation in any class. The limitations per class are clearly stated in the rules. So I guess you can do anything you want unless addressed in the rules (which is opposite of what you usually run into).

Good lord. That's a recipe for trouble.

I still say C5Z or S2000. The Honda will be better able to take advantage of the tire limitations than the C5, but the C5 will have longer legs.