Best car in the world

So, I am driving this Subaru that I bought from Woodie for $2012, home to Florida from Mass, and I get thinking that I have forgotten how wonderful of a car these early WRXs are. Damn thing didn't burn a drop of oil, got 23-25 mpg and Margie likes it well enough, she wants to start driving it.

As road trips often do, this got me day dreaming. I jokingly thought that every time someone on this message board asks about a car, everyone tells them (including us) that a BMW E30 or Miata is the best car in the world. I wondered if perhaps this Subaru could be the best car in the world? With many, many hours on hand, from there I went to how you would prove which car is the best in the world. Obviously their are subjective factors like comfort and styling, and objective factors like fuel mileage, 0-60 times, lap times on a track and/or autocross course etc. Price when new and value now obviously enter into the equation as well.

Would you have to rule out new cars, as they haven't stood the test of time? Would you factor in repair records? Ease of repair? Parts prices? Would you set a budget? Sure, a new 911 is better than any of the cars I have mentioned, but at what price and what if you factor in price and value and depreciation? See where I am going with this?

Please help me narrow down and come up with a system to determine what the best car in the world is. And yes, there is a magazine story here too, once we get the parameters organized a bit better.

As always, you guys run this thing. Tell us what to do.

For me, the e28 BMW is the best car in the world. I like the combination of style, performance, utility, and reliability.

That one was on my short list as well. It was certainly well regarded when new and has definitely stood the test of time. We have a 1988 5 series in the garage.

So what parameters make it great and how do you judge it against, say an E30?

It underperforms on many levels and it's wrong wheel drive, but my username is a hint.

Can't explain why.

The answer is of course a fourth generation diesel hilux 4x4. It's almost too broad of a question which is where some of what makes it interesting comes from.

I think for me it would have to be either the E28 or the E34 M5. They're genuine do-everything cars and especially the E28 is "Goldilocks sized" - not too big and not too small. Actually, the never-sold-in-the-US E34 M5 Wagon would probably take the crown.

A Celica is certainly a damned fine car. As is an E34 M5. I find the E28s more sporting, but the E34 is arguably a better, more modern car.

The best damned car in the world is the one I don't have already.

The guy with the near-3million mile p1800 might have an opinion on this, and he might be hard to argue with. I'd be inclined to put the 72 240Z in the ring, along with that same year 510 and the bmw 2002. And that early wrx...

I'd have to pick the NSX.

e36 m3 sedan 5-speed.

Handles great, fast enough, hauls the family, classic looks. New enough that parts are readily available and the A/C doesnt suck, also it is easy to work on. What more could you ask for...

Tim- Any chance the Subaru will show up at the Challenge with a set of take-offs? I'd love to see how it places without additional mods. Might make a good article or two, at least a starter for it's series of articles.

I still say the Miata is one of the best, and I have in fact owned more than one at a time, and used both when four of us were going to dinner. Wife recently bought my first back with a blown HG, will be repairing it to bring to the Challenge if TrackStein isn't ready in time.

E36 M3 would have to make the top ten list under any circumstances. Volvos are tough, but I just drove Andy's and time has marched on (a lot) since that car was built. I love the Datsuns and the 2002 too, but if you drove them against a 300ZX or E30 or E36 cars, they might not make the list.

One of the problems with this idea is freezing the moment. In their day, the 240Z and BMW 2002 were among the best. Today they are slow and feel like old cars. Somewhere around the late eighties, ergonomics, fuel management, build quality and emissions controls took huge leaps.

Another car that I dearly love, the A1 GTI feels like a slow, old car when compared with newer stuff.

I've often thought about the same thing, and for me it comes down to this question: If I am an average American with 2.3 children and I live where I do, and I can only have 1 car, what would it be?
The reason I ask it like this is that there are a lot of awesome, awesome cars out there for a few jobs, but few that are awesome for many. For me right now, the Miata is the best car in the world--it is cheap, reliable, and fun. Later on down the road, I'll need a 4 door, and I'll probably add on a Crown Vic or B-Body--but not get rid of the Miata. If I had to get rid of the miata, my answer is much different.

The answer almost always comes to one of the following:
- Subaru WRX. Really, the only 2 downsides to the car are the lack of RWD (subjective, and AWD is a close second) and fuel economy.
- E30 318 sedan. Only downside is it is old now.
- BMW 3 or 5 sedan, take your pick of generation and engine. Just phenomenal cars that do a lot of things well.

the best car in the world is the one that makes you happy when you're driving it. WHY it does that will come down to a bunch of factors that vary from driver to driver. The guys from the HAMB will have drastically different parameters (and thus answers) than road racers. The best vehicle for an offroader will be different from either of those...

A few of us are big fans of cheap, old, and obscure

Joey, I hear you, but I am trying to stir the pot and sell some magazines. I think you could pin down a list of ten damned good all all around cars. Or you could pick a winner, or top three in different categories. Remember, it is our job to drive cars and render, well thought out opinions.

Well, turn it into a series of articles; a different top ten list in each issue, covering a different aspect of motorsports. If you have a magazine full of reviews of expensive cars, throw us cheapskates a bone by having a top ten list in the issue that focuses on some less expensive motorsport. If you're doing an article full of budget stuff (e.g. the $20xx challenge issue) throw in a top ten list of more expensive cars. For any of the lists, do the following:

1) pick a task that can be easily incorporated into a title: "Our top 10 cars for X". That can be "Autocrossing on street tires", "ultimate track day cars", "affordable rallycross cars", "new cars to use on the track and the street" or whatever else you want to write about.

2) Clearly define your paramenters; e.g. Ultimate Track Day Cars must have the following features, must lap a specific track in at least this time, must have been produced in this amount, must be available at this price point.......the chosen parameters don't matter as much as telling us what you chose and what your justification was.

3) borrow a bunch of cars that fit those parameters and drive the snot out of them

4) write about it

5) profit

BTW, while I've got your ear, what I'd love to see in the magazine is more detail on how to do low cost, high quality fabrication. (YMMV)

Best car in my world is my '93 RX7

You can bury me in it when the time comes.

No other car I've drive in the last 20 years keeps me as engaged. Whether it be from driving it, tracking it, screwing around with different mods, feeling the curves of the body when I wash it. Can't be beat in my book.

Tim Suddard wrote: E36 M3 would have to make the top ten list under any circumstances. Volvos are tough, but I just drove Andy's and time has marched on (a lot) since that car was built. I love the Datsuns and the 2002 too, but if you drove them against a 300ZX or E30 or E36 cars, they might not make the list. One of the problems with this idea is freezing the moment. In their day, the 240Z and BMW 2002 were among the best. Today they are slow and feel like old cars. Somewhere around the late eighties, ergonomics, fuel management, build quality and emissions controls took huge leaps. Another car that I dearly love, the A1 GTI feels like a slow, old car when compared with newer stuff.

Well, please recall that some of those cars were just designed better than their contemporary competition. I was a big BMW 2002 fan, I must have owned five different ones between 1980 and 1992 (I still wish I'd been smart enough to hang on to one of them). But during the 90s, we created a saying: "These cars were 20 years ahead of their time..25 years ago." I'm sure that as a Z car fan, you've heard something similar through the vintage Dat/Nissan community.

I guess what I'm asking is, just particular moment do you intend to "freeze"? And what environment? There are plenty of cars from the 80s-90s (that would fail in competition) that would actually be pretty good street cars when compared to what is available "new".

Just as the great cars from the 60s-70s (beginning with the Z and 2002 you mentioned) held up through the 80s and 90s, as long as (IMO) proper modifications were made, could we say that the same thing today is not much different?

I'd suggest the Mk.2 VW Golf/Jetta and the Nissan S13 chassis as their equals today. I'd also add the 90s-era Honda Civics to the mix. Modern roadholding and creature comforts (when healthy--and modified), still keeps up with the traffic on the Interstate (on the street), often outperforms newer cars due to less curb weight (autoX/circuit racing).

But the question still remains..what year do we "freeze" upon? In another five years, will there be someone saying, "Yeah, the Mk.2 GTI was twenty years ahead of its time..twenty five years ago.."

Yeah, I don't really like much of what's out there for new cars, either. But I remember another time when new cars sucked, and I drove old ones on purpose. I even drove British cars on purpose, before I could afford my first used BMW 2002.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIL3fbGbU2o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHPDF_Oxyfc

That time passed, I'm hoping this one will as well. YMMV.

The cars that spring to mind for me when I try to think of the best cars in the world are the Subaru GD/GG WRX, Audi Ur Quattro, Saab 900 SPG, Mitsubishi EVO, E30, EF Civic Si, Jeep XJ, Cadillac CTS V, 78-86 Toyota Pickup 4x4, Miata, and for a real flyer I'll toss out a MKIII Range Rover.

All of these cars fall short in at least one particular area. To me though the Subaru is the best at being a jack of all trades and master of none. Its not luxurious, a race car, or spacious, but it does great to okay at all of the metrics I can think of.

Rewriting, too much preamble. I may restate this with further thought, but I will say this: the best car in the world can't just be bought.

Whether it's bringing an older car up to modern performance, or taking the excess insulation (and I'm not just talking sound deadening) out of a newer car, nothing that came off an assembly line (that I've ever driven) combined ideals in terms of performance and tactile awesomeness. I will admit freely to not having gotten to drive a lot of popular newer cars, but I have owned each of The Answers (except a Jeep XJ).

A related question (no idea whether there's an article in it) is "how much of a 2002 (or any old car) can you replace before it's no longer a 2002?"

W123 Mercedes Diesel

Volvo 240

(in a tie)

/end thread

There are a couple high-water marks that haven't been followed up properly.

'70 1/2 Camaro - Got one year as "the American Ferrari" - Bill Mitchell's masterpiece body with Herb Adams's masterpiece chassis - then they started taking away the horsepower.

'88 CRX - How slim and slick can a little, practical car get?

'90 Q45 - One hundred sixty one miles per hour!

'94 Supra Turbo - One poster on here was a mechanic on a Speed World Challenge team that ran these. He swore that they never changed anything that was broken or worn out - just checked parts and put them back in.

'00 Honda "Murderer's Row" lineup - Insight, Civic Si, Integra Type R, Prelude SH, CL type S - If your company's engineers can spread themselves that thin and get those results, then why'd you burn them out?

'05 Ford GT - This one can rest on its laurels a while longer.

I am surprised the Porsche 944 didn't come up. One of the best handling cars of all time, super reliable IF well maintained. Hatchback versatility, classic styling, pop-up headlights, great fuel economy, a transaxle(very cool), luxury, and in the case of the Turbo/S2, lotsa power.

I have owned a very large number of cars from Volvos to CRX's to my current cars, a Lexus IS300 and my 84 944 and the 944 still keeps me coming back smiling. IMHO, one of the best cars ever made.

I tend to agree with you Tim. I have owned 5 Subarus including an RS, WRXs and an STi and still feel they really are just about the best all around vehicle you can buy. There are many car's that do things better but really none that do so much so well especially if you live in a northern climate where snow is a big factor. I have never broken a tranny, blew a gasket or even dropped a drip of oil in any of mine however all were purchased new and taken care of. Completely reliable day after day.

So rain, snow, dry, wet, speed, reliability, affordability,AWD, mileage, practicality (especially in the wagon) and of course the huge after market for them now is just a bonus. And the range from the standard Impreza to the WRX to the STi, whatever flavor you want. You nailed it on this one, I really don't think there is a better all around car out there.