Im looking for a second car for back up/track car. Ive been looking at RX8's, s60 R, mazdaspeed 6, and TT Quattro. I like things that are a little different and prefer it to be awd or rwd. Your help would be appreciated!
Im looking for a second car for back up/track car. Ive been looking at RX8's, s60 R, mazdaspeed 6, and TT Quattro. I like things that are a little different and prefer it to be awd or rwd. Your help would be appreciated!
e36 m3. Though that's not that "different" as far as track cars go - but hey, it's not a Miata. $8k can get you a pretty nice one, and it's a better track car than any of the things you listed (and more reliable, and cheaper to maintain/upgrade).
If you want different but still fast and fun and reliable and AWD....find a 2005 Subaru Legacy GT wagon (the one year they could be had with a manual transmission). 250+hp stock, AWD, lots of aftermarket, lots of WRX stuff fits, easy to make faster, and room to carry your track tires and gear easily :)
The TT is heavy, slow, and overly complicated for what it is. They don't even handle very well. Just a VW Jetta with a pretty body, I was extremely disappointed when I finally got behind the wheel of one. Skip it.
The S60R is a good car but also heavy and complicated. With it's fancy electronic suspension and luxury doodads the Volvo is not really a great choice as a track car, they were made to be versatile road touring sedans.
MS6 or RX-8 from what you listed, but I agree that an E36 M3 is the right tool for the job. Would also consider a R53 Cooper S if you can deal with the FWD, or maybe MS3. Older Corvettes and the like are also in that range. Wouldn't go for the Legacy GT though, they are cool but fragile and command ridiculous prices because of their rarity.
As a happy owner of a V70R I can chime in that the 2004-07 S60R/V70R would be a very sub optimal track vehicle even though people are getting substantial power out of the 5 pots, there are plenty of manuals to be had, they have great brakes, and the 4C dampers can be removed and replaced with real dampers without electronic malfunction. The touring DNA and fat runs really really deep.
pointofdeparture wrote: The TT is heavy, slow, and overly complicated for what it is. They don't even handle very well. Just a VW Jetta with a pretty body, I was extremely disappointed when I finally got behind the wheel of one. Skip it. The S60R is a good car but also heavy and complicated. With it's fancy electronic suspension and luxury doodads the Volvo is not really a great choice as a track car, they were made to be versatile road touring sedans. MS6 or RX-8 from what you listed, but I agree that an E36 M3 is the right tool for the job. Would also consider a R53 Cooper S if you can deal with the FWD, or maybe MS3. Older Corvettes and the like are also in that range. Wouldn't go for the Legacy GT though, they are cool but fragile and command ridiculous prices because of their rarity.
The car will see light track duty, autocross and the occasional HPDE. I found a slightly beat up rx8 with a new (from mazda) engine for a good price otherwise I would stick to normal engines. Thoughts on an RX8? Otherwise I'm looking for something newer. Love the S60 R. How durable is the MS6? Hadn't given the M3 much thought, but I will now.
taparsons wrote: I like things that are a little different and prefer it to be awd or rwd. Your help would be appreciated!
Different?
1990 - 1995 Infiniti Q45.
It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up.
In reply to JohnRW1621:
Out of curiosity, why do you like the Q45?
taparsons wrote: In reply to JohnRW1621: Out of curiosity, why do you like the Q45?
The photo above is me in this years $2015 Q45 which took 10th overall. Last year I ran the different but identical car and that took 11th overall. Details:
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/i-need-help-with-a-salvage-auction-purchase-able-t/103085/page1/
In both cases the cars were pretty much "near stock." The cars were prepped pretty much the same which means they were run with sticky tires but only in a 16" size on stock ride height. Both had a reflashed ECU which moves redline from 6,800 rpm to 7,400 (in a 4 cam V8) and brings on the "vtec" at a lower rpm. This factory under rated engine of 278hp is well known to put out more like 300hp stock and the reflashed ECU brings that closer to 340hp.
Stock, the car has a limited slip rear end. Both had a rear sway bar but this years was larger.
Other than that...stock and both were run with their full interior.
Why do I like?
VERY overlooked due to its boring exterior but what lies beneath is far more capable than the exterior (or interior) would lead you to believe.
I have not, but 300zx suspension (like coil overs and bushings) can be added to these cars as well as 300zx manual 5 speed trans. Adding all that and then taking some significant weight out of this 4,000lb car could really bring the whole thing even more alive.
Here is a local sample if you want to go try it yourself:
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/cto/5298339470.html
If you dislike the wheels on that car, no worry. At 5x114.3 just about any Nissan or Infiniti stock sedan wheel (fwd or rwd) will bolt up perfectly. Tons of choices out there. Samples:
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/wto/5296708685.html
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/wto/5306067579.html
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/wto/5302437411.html
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/ssd/wto/5298588670.html
The full recipe can be found here:
http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/q45-performance-modifications.html
www.q45.org
Im in the Greensboro NC area. But I appreciate it could be a nice project.
As already mentioned, E36 M3 or E46 330i are the alternatives to the Miata if you need an 'all-weather' track fighter.
In reply to Tyler H:
How do the two compare?
In reply to taparsons:
The E36 M3 is a bit faster and needs less to stand up to track work out of the box, but the E46 330i has a significantly nicer interior and an aftermarket big enough to close the gap. I tracked an E46 330ci for a summer and had tons of fun, but the E36 M3 guys were always just a little bit quicker. Both are great cars, really.
is300, and change in your pocket to start toward turbo
Fine, I'll be that guy.
Turbo miata
JohnRW1621 wrote:taparsons wrote: In reply to JohnRW1621: Out of curiosity, why do you like the Q45?The photo above is me in this years $2015 Q45 which took 10th overall. Last year I ran the different but identical car and that took 11th overall. Details: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/i-need-help-with-a-salvage-auction-purchase-able-t/103085/page1/ In both cases the cars were pretty much "near stock." The cars were prepped pretty much the same which means they were run with sticky tires but only in a 16" size on stock ride height. Both had a reflashed ECU which moves redline from 6,800 rpm to 7,400 (in a 4 cam V8) and brings on the "vtec" at a lower rpm. This factory under rated engine of 278hp is well known to put out more like 300hp stock and the reflashed ECU brings that closer to 340hp. Stock, the car has a limited slip rear end. Both had a rear sway bar but this years was larger. Other than that...stock and both were run with their full interior. Why do I like? VERY overlooked due to its boring exterior but what lies beneath is far more capable than the exterior (or interior) would lead you to believe. I have not, but 300zx suspension (like coil overs and bushings) can be added to these cars as well as 300zx manual 5 speed trans. Adding all that and then taking some significant weight out of this 4,000lb car could really bring the whole thing even more alive. Here is a local sample if you want to go try it yourself: http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/cto/5298339470.html If you dislike the wheels on that car, no worry. At 5x114.3 just about any Nissan or Infiniti stock sedan wheel (fwd or rwd) will bolt up perfectly. Tons of choices out there. Samples: http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/wto/5296708685.html http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/wto/5306067579.html http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/wto/5302437411.html http://sandiego.craigslist.org/ssd/wto/5298588670.html The full recipe can be found here: http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/q45-performance-modifications.html www.q45.org
Although it's not commonly thought of for performance reasons as certain other brands, Infinity's reputation for reliability and comfort can't be denied.
If you're willing to go fwd, the Ion Redline would be a very attractive option.
Heck, 8k would get you a heavily modified one now......there's a 400+ whp turbo swapped one here local to me for that money.
In reply to taparsons:
I paid exactly 8k for my ZHP
I'm against fwd and automatics. However I did enjoy driving the mini s. The car I'm looking for is a fun street car and also something I can develop my skills with in autocross/hpde.
I was shopping around for a track car a few years back, but with a bit higher budget and seriously considered 350Z, RX8, E36 M3 and many others. I feel that the RX8 is like a 10 year newer E36 M3, but with bigger brakes and a better suspension, a 6 speed and more. Compared to the E36 M3, the RX8 doesn't have a fragile cooling system, it won't rip out suspension and subframe mounts, it won't mushroom shock mounts, the interiors hold up well over time, suspension arms referred to as "salad tongs", it doesn't need aftermarket parts to align it, etc. I recall adding up all the parts needed to fix the common issues for that car and it was THOUSANDS, plus welding and a lot of work and that's just to get a stock-ish car safely on track. Nope, no thanks.
Now, in that price range, you'll be looking at an S1 RX8, which does have some disadvantages compared to the later ones, which GRM covered well in their buyer's guide. The older water pump is prone to high rpm cavitation, it needs more oil pressure and the transmission is a little less durable for instance. If you can afford the S2's (2009+), that's the way to go as they have very few known issues.
I have found a very good deal on a s1 with lower miles and a brand new engine....I guess I will look into it. I have been borrowing a friends automatic rx8 and love the driving dynamics.
RX8driver wrote: I was shopping around for a track car a few years back, but with a bit higher budget and seriously considered 350Z, RX8, E36 M3 and many others. I feel that the RX8 is like a 10 year newer E36 M3, but with bigger brakes and a better suspension, a 6 speed and more. Compared to the E36 M3, the RX8 doesn't have a fragile cooling system, it won't rip out suspension and subframe mounts, it won't mushroom shock mounts, the interiors hold up well over time, suspension arms referred to as "salad tongs", it doesn't need aftermarket parts to align it, etc. I recall adding up all the parts needed to fix the common issues for that car and it was THOUSANDS, plus welding and a lot of work and that's just to get a stock-ish car safely on track. Nope, no thanks. Now, in that price range, you'll be looking at an S1 RX8, which does have some disadvantages compared to the later ones, which GRM covered well in their buyer's guide. The older water pump is prone to high rpm cavitation, it needs more oil pressure and the transmission is a little less durable for instance. If you can afford the S2's (2009+), that's the way to go as they have very few known issues.
Yup I vote RX-8 for these reasons. And for these reasons I'm really leaning towards getting one.
It baffles me how so many people blindly say E36 M3 as the standard track car choice (well, maybe 2nd choice behind Miata) when it's got so many known issues, plus they're getting on in age.
RX8driver wrote: It baffles me how so many people blindly say E36 M3 as the standard track car choice (well, maybe 2nd choice behind Miata) when it's got so many known issues, plus they're getting on in age.
I don't know what kind of abuse the people you run with put their cars through, but the group I ran with was basically full of box stock E36 M3s with little more than sticky DOT tires and upgraded brakes out having fun every weekend. A lot of the stuff you mentioned isn't really necessary until you start trying to add serious power or decide to run 275-series R-comps; the rear subframe is already reinforced from the factory on the E36 M and is more than adequate for most scenarios. The cooling system problem has been beaten to death and is solvable with about $700 in parts. Yes the interiors suck, that just is what it is, I'll give you that.
More than anything the issue with them is that good ones are getting increasingly hard to find as most of them are bought up and beat on by stance bros, with the other issue being that the platform isn't designed to take a bunch of mods in its factory state. If you buy one and throw a turbo or supercharger and 10" wide wheels with R-comps on right away, yeah, they need a ton of money to handle it. If you just want to put a set of Conti DW tires on with some decent brake pads and go have a blast weekend after weekend though, they are a great choice. The RX-8 is also a great choice but much like the M3 you have to find a nice one that has been cared for. Pretty much anything in the "affordable track car" category that isn't a F-body or Mustang is going to be that way.
In reply to calteg: I agree with the Miata suggestion. But I prefer the Fast Forward Supercharger to the turbo. To each his/her own.
In reply to RX8driver:
The issues are generally easy, one time fixes. Get your fab guy to weld in the basic reinforcements. Thats done for life. Have him weld the oil pump nut on while he's at it. Thats done for life. Upgrade water pump to metal impeller. Good for at least 50k miles, generally.
Vanos rebuild every 100k miles for 60 bucks if you DIY. Bushings are a pain, but thats not necessarily exclusive to BMW. Other than that, the car is rock solid. You really wont find a better mix of practicality and performance for the price. You just wont.
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