Best disposable appliance for commute

Playing a little on fueleconomy.gov, it really does look like a 99-06 Insight or 97-03 Prius would be the smart choice.

Based on my 35,000 miles/yr and 80% highway driving, my savings with an Insight (over my Integra) would be $2200/yr and $1450/yr for the Prius. (FWIW the other car under fairly serious consideration is the Toyota Echo which woud result in a $1050/yr savings).

Anyone know of any good buyer's guides for the 99-06 Insight and 97-03 Priuses? I've bought plenty of gas engined cars but I'm new to the hybrid thing.

dculberson wrote:

Vigo wrote: If someone cant figure out how to drive a prius, they are a damn idiot and thats all there is to it. There is forward and backward on the shifter. Put it in forward gear and push the accelerator pedal, and IT GOES FORWARD. AMAAAAAAAAAAAZZZZZZZZZZIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!

Except if you do what you do in most push button start cars - sit in it and push the button to start it - it just sits there beeping blankly at you. The first time I had to drive one I ran into that. You have to put your foot on the brake to start it. Never ran into that before or since, and it seems like they could have had one of the half dozen screens flash "put foot on brake to start" but no it just beeps. Still, I think they're good for appliances, and would love to have a 1st gen Insight. Some day.

If you push the start button twice it will start without your foot being on the brake.

Smartuki?

Interesting discussion. I'm tossing around my thoughts on what I want for a dd (what a shocker), and the 1st gen Insight has crossed my mind. I love my '96 Volvo 850 wagon to death, but at 21mpg it's not super efficient. I drive about 20k/yr with it, so fuel savings add up. The Insight is an intruiging option, different than the typical econobox...which is part of the intruige for me. They seem really cool, but I wonder how much fun they are to drive, especially if you have the low rolling resistance tires on them.

EG or EK Civic. Very reliable, stupid easy to maintain, good gas mileage, tons of aftermarket, doesn't suck to drive unlike the Prius.

/end thread.

The Insight is cool though.

DaveEstey wrote: If you push the start button twice it will start without your foot being on the brake.

Ha ha, I hate that they reinforce the "just keep pushing the same button" behavior. I did figure out the brake thing quickly but know some people that wouldn't. They would probably call me for help.

Cheap for an original Prius...
http://cleveland.craigslist.org/cto/3517207178.html#.UOSueKxlwa8
$4600 w/ 129k

They seem really cool, but I wonder how much fun they are to drive, especially if you have the low rolling resistance tires on them.

Mine did not have original tires on it when i got it and i never drove on them, but i upgraded to 185/60r14 and then 195/45/15 and noticed a big improvement each time. I would say tires (but maybe not wheels) would be a mandatory mod to have turning fun in an Insight.

Mine actually was the most fun when i put 2 15s on the front and had 2 14s still on the back. The 'traction stagger' made it a lot more neutral. However, i also think a rear spring upgrade is a semi-necessary upgrade for an Insight so running matched tire sizes and stiffer rear springs would probably give the same effect.

If you wanted to keep the stock wheels, i would run one of the autoX type 185/60r14 set of tires on the front, and any old skinny/cheap 14 of similar height on the back. That way you have the steering response, gain some more neutral behavior and ultimate turning grip, and keep the ~10.8lb wheels. Heavier wheels have a massive effect on acceleration on an Insight.

Also, an Insight can get away with very soft tires where you otherwise wouldnt run them because they are VERY nice to tires. You would probably be able to get 20k+ out of a set of 140-200 treadwear tires.

Thanks for the good discussion guys.

Echo was mentioned by the OP and I've wanted one for years after borrowing one awhile back. It got me to thinking about momentum cars. I dig momentum cars having cut my teeth on Beetles.

Having said that, I've recently fallen into a '97 Geo Metro 3 cylinder 5 speed that needed a transmission for the princely sum of free. I'm seeing 39mpg without trying on a Craigslist transmission and a junkyard motor based on the markings. I lifted the transmission up to the engine with one hand leaning over the fender, easy. This is the same car I brought to the Challenge this year.

I agree with Vigo that a car may need a tweak here and there for it to realize its potential. The Metro wasn't built the way I wanted it from the factory and needed some massaging to get it there. Granted, it was built to be disposable. BUT, there is a great deal of web support for the Metro in addition to a pretty decent aftermarket for the most important pieces anyone may want to change.

There are a ton of hypermiler's using the Metro. A handful of homebrew aero tweaks will push a commuter well into 40+ mpg. Initial buy-in and cost of ownership is going to be very low on this car. I've seen others for sale around $500 give or take. Parts are cheap, I've never owned a car that I could spend so little on consumables. RockAuto has everything. eBay has any suspension parts you might want to add and cheap. The only thing that I would say is a must do for a commuter would be to swap the seats to something out of a Suzuki, direct bolt-in affair.

My $.02

90s Corolla is dead nuts bulletproof. Like, crazy reliable. And a fine car.

But I wouldn't have guessed you could get a Prius for that money. May be becoming a better choice.

PS122 wrote: Playing a little on fueleconomy.gov, it really does look like a 99-06 Insight or 97-03 Prius would be the smart choice. Based on my 35,000 miles/yr and 80% highway driving, my savings with an Insight (over my Integra) would be $2200/yr and $1450/yr for the Prius. (FWIW the other car under fairly serious consideration is the Toyota Echo which woud result in a $1050/yr savings). Anyone know of any good buyer's guides for the 99-06 Insight and 97-03 Priuses? I've bought plenty of gas engined cars but I'm new to the hybrid thing.

www.insightcentral.net is the big Insight forum.

For the most part all years are the same 00-06 other than some minor ECU tuning changes that give the earlier cars a few MPG advantage. Aftermarket battery replacements are about $2000 and better than OEM, so keep that cost in mind if the battery has never been replaced and the miles are way up there (or super low, as a battery sitting unused for long periods of time will go bad)

Overall mileage on the engine and chassis aren't that big of a deal and a typical Honda affair, they'll practically run forever. As an added bonus, the car is all aluminum and plastic, so no rust.

5 speeds can do lean burn and get better mileage than the CVTs.

Stick with the OEM Bridgestone RE92s, they have the lowest rolling resistance of pretty much any tire out there, nothing will get you better MPGs on an Insight, they are reasonably cheap as well, usually around $90-100/tire.

You can have any color you want as long as you like red, blue, silver, or the crazy citrus green color. Interiors are all the same color. Silver and red are the most common, followed by blue, the green is fairly rare.

If you get one that has floormats that are in good shape, take them out and sell them for a healthy profit.

If you decide the stereo sucks (and it does) I found some subwoofers that are really small and fit in to the rear speaker location.

The steering wheel is the same as other Hondas and Acuras from that era (S2000, RSX, Civic Si) so swapping it out for a nice leather wrapped wheel is trival. The stock wheel is a weird feeling plasticy mushy foam thing, and is definitely worth swapping out.

Oh one last thing, the engine compression is 10.8:1, and while you can run regular in it, it will run substantially better on 91 and net a few extra MPGs over plain 87, as well as extra power. With premium creeping just under $3/gal here I can fill mine up from almost empty for a little under $30, and average about 500-600 miles a tank at 50-60mpg.

e_pie wrote: With premium creeping just under $3/gal here I can fill mine up from almost empty for a little under $30, and average about 500-600 miles a tank at 50-60mpg.

This 1st gen Insight discussion really has me thinking.

What kind of driving do you do where you get 50-60mpg?

e_pie wrote: With premium creeping just under $3/gal here I can fill mine up from almost empty for a little under $30, and average about 500-600 miles a tank at 50-60mpg.

sure wish those were the prices here ... 87 is ~ 3.30/gal

Klayfish wrote:

e_pie wrote: With premium creeping just under $3/gal here I can fill mine up from almost empty for a little under $30, and average about 500-600 miles a tank at 50-60mpg.

This 1st gen Insight discussion really has me thinking. What kind of driving do you do where you get 50-60mpg?

Commuting back and forth to work, depending on traffic about 50-70mph. And it's in Colorado, so there are hills. If it weren't for the two big hills I drive up every day I'd probably be touching 70mpg. Mileage also goes down a bit in the winter from the denser air, winter I'll get about 50-55mpg, summer I'll get 55-65mpg.

This last weekend driving to Denver from Colorado Springs I was drafting a Grand Cherokee going 90mph, my trip average for the drive up was 56mpg. Normally cruising at 80-85 without drafting will get 50ish mpg depending on hills and wind.

Dammit, now i'm thinking that i need an Insight...

However, i think we put less than 20k on vehicles between the two of us every year.

This info is fairly useless to me but in case anyone has a SLOW commute, ive driven my Insight to get 94mpg @ 45mph, all stock, just by being nice on level ground.

Also, my insight still has the same top speed (112) after ~340k miles. So i think the motor is still ok. And i use 0-20 in it and dont have oil pressure problems.

Has anybody mentioned the CRZ? I think they are probably the best looking of all the hybrids, plus they are still sporty. Don't know much about them, other than they look cool with Spoon parts on them.

Like this...

Vigo wrote: This info is fairly useless to me but in case anyone has a SLOW commute, ive driven my Insight to get 94mpg @ 45mph, all stock, just by being nice on level ground. Also, my insight still has the same top speed (112) after ~340k miles. So i think the motor is still ok. And i use 0-20 in it and dont have oil pressure problems.

I wish I had a flat commute. :(

All this Insight discussion is making me wonder if my next car really needs a back seat. 50-60 mpg and more interesting to drive than a Prius can be tough for me to ignore.

It drives a lot like my old CRX Si, just less power.

PS122 wrote:

fidelity101 wrote: mazda2 0% apr!

Monthly payments... NOOOOO!

Thanks e_pie for the Insight info.

The Insight is quickly becoming the only answer for me. The part of Ohio that I'm in is very flat and I rarely have anyone else in the car with me. My commute is about 58 miles of interstate driving bookended by about 12 total miles of rural/stop-go driving. Based on everything I'm hearing, the Insight would be perfect for me.

e_pie wrote: It drives a lot like my old CRX Si, just less power.

As if I needed another reason, I just parted with my CRX about three weeks ago. Now if I can only find one within a couple hundered miles...

PS122 wrote: Thanks e_pie for the Insight info. The Insight is quickly becoming the only answer for me. The part of Ohio that I'm in is very flat and I rarely have anyone else in the car with me. My commute is about 58 miles of interstate driving bookended by about 12 total miles of rural/stop-go driving. Based on everything I'm hearing, the Insight would be perfect for me.

With a drive like that I'd be willing to bet after some practice and careful driving you'll have your MPGs well in to the 70's, if not higher.

The mileage some of the guys on the Insight forum are getting is absolutely ridiculous.