Best Entry Level Performance Car?

I am going to agree with a lot of others here on the Miata being, theoretically, the best car for a beginner. Great stable, simple effective chassis that is just underpowered enough to teach momentum conservation. Good aftermarket and reliable as an anvil. The main issue with it in reality is a lot of clubs will not let you run it without a cage even with the hard top in place. That limits availability and depending on where you live can be a deal breaker. You can't bring a change of tires along when you are ready either.

From your list above, the Boxster S is the best handler. It has the same drawbacks as the Miata.

The Z4 is good after a bit of suspension work to cure its hideous understeer but... still tires don't fit inside.

The E46 M3 is a fantastic car. It handles very well and is accepted everywhere. Four race tires fit inside along with a cooler, tools and a buddy. It will flat-out smoke everything else on your list if you can drive it that hard. Good aftermarket... but... if you want to save a few bucks - the E36 M3 is all of those things too and lighter.

The Audi and Benz are compromised in the "no extra tires" category and generally don't show up much at the track. Other than my general observation that Audi/VW guys spend more track time on the tow hook than than driving I know nothing about these.

The new 'stangs are pretty competent but kinda heavy. I think if you must go this route - wait for the '11 302 Boss. It looks to be the real deal (it will still be too heavy though if you like nimble, tossable cars). The current ones will be "okay" but not up to snuff with the rest of the list.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: From your list above, the Boxster S is the best handler. It has the same drawbacks as the Miata.

That, plus parts are 10 times as expensive and tires cost twice as much.

The 4th Gen Civic is the best choice if you want cheap, reliable, and entry-level. You can find old an IT or Honda Challenge car with a trailer and wheels and spares for your budget pretty easily. You will learn more about the proper line and momentum with a Civic than anything else. The only limitation is that it is FWD, and if you want to move to something more serious down the road, you will not have the RWD experience. If only there was a small, cheap, RWD car with a similar following and support.....

(yes, the Miata)

Can you afford TWO used Boxsters?

Remember there's a chance you'll berkeley the car up BAD. I'd cry a bit, but I could strip a few parts and walk away from my NA Miata and make it back to the track in a couple weeks in another Miata, even if my insurance didn't cover the wreck.

Plus, honestly, there's nothing more fun on the street than a Miata. The faster cars on your list are quick enough that they feel pretty hemmed in on the street.

You know, most of the choices I'd run down are already here. Miata, Rx8, Evo, STi. What about the Mazdaspeed3? 1g cars are down well into the teens for a decent used example, and they're lots of fun. Handle pretty well for a FWD car too, and as long as you leave it alone, completely agreeable ride for to and from the track/groceries/whatever.

I'd buy a well maintained E36 M3 for ~8-10k (easy to find) and stock up on consumables, find a good coilover kit etc.

jstein77 wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: From your list above, the Boxster S is the best handler. It has the same drawbacks as the Miata.

That, plus parts are 10 times as expensive and tires cost twice as much.

Not really 10x... and you are right, the tires are a little more expensive too, but its also several seconds a lap faster at amost anywhere you can do a track day once you learn to drive it.

Miatas are great learning tools and fantastic spec racers and if you are a little more advanced that the other drivers in your run group at HPDEs you get to tell stories about the day you passed a Ferrari/Viper/Porsche but once you get to a certain level you spend your day having people with better cars ruin your momentum in the brake zones. So, either you run with the Miata club, go spec racing, stuff a turbo on it or spend all your track time having people berkeley up your momentum and then drive away.

Sometimes having a little more car is worth the cost of rubber.

Things that come to mind (some of these fall prey to the drift tax):
FB/FC RX-7
240SX
240Z
Miata
S2000
944
e36 (just about any one)
1.9L Z3
AE86 Corolla

I'm in a similar place right now, and the C4 Corvette is growing on me. I'm surprised at how few people mention them around here... Is there something I'm missing? All I can think is that the wheels are big and thus the tires are expensive.

LT1<LS1.

LainfordExpress wrote: I'm in a similar place right now, and the C4 Corvette is growing on me. I'm surprised at how few people mention them around here... Is there something I'm missing? All I can think is that the wheels are big and thus the tires are expensive.

It is my understanding that they are somewhat expensive to make handle well and the C5 is a much better platform. That comes only from 2nd hand opinions and the show with the 2 canucks who made a track car out of one. I never looked into specific reasons because they don't really appeal to me.

Might be worth a top level thread - I'm sure someone here knows how to make one boogie.

what about a C5 Corvette? Arn't those within price range?

I'm gonna have to go Miata on this one too, or an MR2. Don't underestimate the expense of tires and brakes on some cars. Wear items can add up quickly on cars like a Corvette or Porsche.

Also, I've long been a fan of starting in a lower hp car. If you hang around the track long enough, it's easy to spot those who started in lower hp cars, they almost always drive better. Having lots of hp masks a lot of problems. I would also recommend taking some of your budget and putting towards driver instruction.

If you are just getting started, look for something easy to drive, easy to repair, (you are going to break something, or at least wear something out), reliable, and inexpensive to operate. Nothing is worse that having to fix crap at the track.

Also, you need something that you could push off a cliff and not get too badly hurt. There is always the possibility of wading the car up.

Quick edit: I've driven a few cars on track, and here is a short top five list of most fun. You have to get to #5 before you find one with any real hp.

1. By a somewhat surprising margin: 240Z
2. Fiat X1/9 (specifically Hoelscher's old DSP car)
3. Gen 1 MR2
4. Supercharged Miata
5. Gen 2 Viper

Further down the list you'll find in no particular order: 944 Turbo, MR2 Turbo, M3, Supra TT, open wheel cars, etc.

For track time, I think anything with a spec series would be a fun place to play (E30, 944, and of course Miata). As a beginner, you can focus more on driving than worrying so much about the car. Plenty of competition and an experienced community to lean on. It'll also be easier to find prepped cars.

Relative to your original list, I think you could include all the benefits of the miata to the other two as well (in varying degrees). Front-engine rwd, light(ish), predictable handling, moderately powered, and cheap to run.

Buy an E30. Specifically - buy mine. So I can buy something else... like a Miata... or a MINI... or (more realistically) new siding for my house...

But in all seriousness, after buying a really nice E30, I now really, really wish I'd bought a Miata instead... and just accepted the g/f bitching about it...

A much overlooked car is the ZX2,especially the SR. I ran my 2000 SR for eight years doing 2 or 3 track days,some auto cross's and in the winter,ice racing. then it was a DD. I was often told, "The car shouldn't be that fast" The car was very reliable and cheap to run.

Someone already mentioned it but I think it is worth reinforcing.

NEVER get on race track at speed in a car UNLESS you can financially and emotionally afford to wad it up in a little ball and walk away from it.

When you learning to drive to the limits of a cars traction, you are going to make mistakes and lose control. I have seen at least 2 cars totaled by newbies at HPDE events. One of the them of a brand new M3. I highly recommend you budget your money to buy a car, cover the cost of tires, consumable brakes parts, travel, lodging, and reserve enough to cover a good chunk of a replacement car or major repairs to your track toy. With you budget, Miata is good solution.

I wouldn't recommend a Corvette. As already said many times, you want a car that will force you to learn to drive, not something you can go fast by simply mashing the skinny the pedal on the right against the floorboard.

Miata is the big obvious answer, but if it's not your cup of tea and drift tax isn't high in your area, you could also look at S13-chassis 240SXs and AE86 Corollas. They're both light, very well balanced momentum cars in stock trim with large aftermarket offerings and lots of go-fast knowledge. The S13 is a particularly good choice for a car that can grow with you; when the stock KA24 becomes not enough, the SR20DET was the motor put in that car in the rest of the world, so swapping it in is incredibly cheap/easy , and if that should ever not be enough, LSx swaps are more and more common (enough to the point I think you can buy a kit to bolt one in). The hatchback S13 can also swallow a gob of stuff in the back.

Miata or E30.. both are the benchmark that we use to all things GRM. Both can be a good entry level car and "too much car" depending on the driver.

And you can walk away from both if you stuff it into a ball and not feel too much wallet hurt

My autocross experience have been in these:

My new track adventures will start with this fixed roof

Entry level car? What's in your garage/driveway/parking stall right now?

Spend the money on wheels/tires/brakes/fuel/entry fees. That is the wrench that will tighten the loose nut behind the wheel...

--sarge

Is the Hyuandai Genesis coupe in that price range yet?

C5 would be a great car. I'd take that over the german options. But the power would lead to a greater learning curve. A less powerful car is much easier to learn on.

The Audis and Benzes aren't much fun on track. Too heavy, slow, numb. btdt...

ReverendDexter wrote: I wouldn't recommend a Corvette. As already said many times, you want a car that will force you to learn to *drive*, not something you can go fast by simply mashing the skinny the pedal on the right against the floorboard.

I don't think that's fair. Our LT1 C4 handled brilliantly on stock springs, custom valved Bilsteins, and a good alignment. The PO likened it to a Miata (wrt balance) and I concur.
I still found the E36 M3 more "fun", and certainly easier to live with, but that's a topic for another day.

C4 vettes are interesting, but they tend to eat up wheel bearings, which consequently eats up a good amount of money.

I was the first to say Miata, just because I wanted to beat everyone else, but it really is a good platform to learn on. The thing it has going for it is that it's light weight, low on power, and it's the most raced car in the US. The biggest downside is it's inherent lack of power, so once you learn to drive it, you will get pissed at people who can't drive as well, but won't let you past. But, face it, there will always be somebody there who is going to be holding you up (and you'll most likely hold someone else up at some point).

I drive a MK1 MR2 SC and it's fun. I have enough power to get past some people ( with less hassle than when it was NA), but poorly driven ____ (BMW, WRX, Evo, Miata, Fiero) can hold me up. More power would just mean that a poorly driven Vette, Porch, whatever would be the roadblock.

Miata, S2000 are both good options. Miata will cost less to buy and race, but the S2000 is a faster car.

njansenv wrote:

ReverendDexter wrote: I wouldn't recommend a Corvette. As already said many times, you want a car that will force you to learn to *drive*, not something you can go fast by simply mashing the skinny the pedal on the right against the floorboard.

I don't think that's fair. Our LT1 C4 handled brilliantly on stock springs, custom valved Bilsteins, and a good alignment. The PO likened it to a Miata (wrt balance) and I concur.

I'm not sure how that makes what I said not fair. I'm not saying the Corvette handles poorly, I'm saying that it has too much power to qualify as a momentum car for a rookie driver.