Best Entry Level Performance Car?

DukeOfUndersteer wrote: what about a C5 Corvette? Arn't those within price range?

Yep they're in the range but they blisteringly fast and your learning curve better be really steep otherwise it will be $$$$. He said entry level, I went out and bought a FD @ 20 years old. The first couple of weeks with it were nuts, it taught me to be smooth with my inputs to get the most out of it, but I was really lucky I didn't seriously mush it or someone while learning to do so. I believe the C5 to be in the same ballpark.

As for the miata being the answer, well I've seen fully built FM cars on the FM website for 6-7k. That's ALOT of car. A NA miata will teach more than punish especially with a good set of tires and suspension set up properly. So yes dollar per dollar the answer still is miata.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

LainfordExpress wrote: I'm in a similar place right now, and the C4 Corvette is growing on me. I'm surprised at how few people mention them around here... Is there something I'm missing? All I can think is that the wheels are big and thus the tires are expensive.

It is my understanding that they are somewhat expensive to make handle well and the C5 is a much better platform. That comes only from 2nd hand opinions and the show with the 2 canucks who made a track car out of one. I never looked into specific reasons because they don't really appeal to me. Might be worth a top level thread - I'm sure someone here knows how to make one boogie.

I remember a article in the mag called "Plastic Explosive" or some such hing. It was a multi parter about taking a C4, making it go, making it stop, and making it turn on a reasonable dime. I couldnt find it in the project cars section, so I cant link it, but it seemed like it was all pretty doable for the average joe.

I also want to toss a 2.5 RS imprezza coupe in the ring (only time it was available as a coupe was like 96-01 or something like that). The coupe would be more tossable and the EJ25 responds well tot he aftermarket. Also IS300 is coming into the 10k range (but its a bit on the portly side).

How about an 89-91 C4 Corvette? It still has the 250 hp L98, but could be had with a 6 speed. Should be easier/cheaper to maintain than an LT1, and with less power, a better car than a C5 to learn on. Presumably, it'd be a good stepping stone to a more powerful RWD car.

It's interesting that the handling of C4s is being questioned, I thought they were the first mass production car to pull 1g from the factory.

I'm leaning towards a C4 because what I really want is a fun car for the street, tsd rallies, and autocrosses, and after owning my 124 Spider, I've found I'm not much of a convertible guy. I test drove a 240sx, but my head touched the ceiling without a helmet (I'm over 6' and prefer to sit rather upright).

friedgreencorrado wrote: RWD: uh,..hate to echo the choir here, but it's made by Mazda, and starts with an "M". (well, it actually starts with a key, but the name starts with "M". )

Alternate spelling, and with engine moved to proper location: starts with an "M" and ends with "R2".

Another "other" (or is that just "an other"?) car to consider is the xA6x Celica or Supra. Kinda like an AE86 without the "drift tax". Yeah, the 22RE isn't a screamer, but it does make more power and loads more torque than the 4AGE. Lots of people have made track cars out of them. Parts are silly cheap and easy to find.

Honestly if I were in your position my short list would be

miata s2000 e36 m3 e30

Good luck!

You can go with something weird and cheap and then modify it to whatever you want. Hell, my Daewoo Nubira is more fun on track than my 230 hp, AWD, STX prepped Eagle Talon ever was and I got the Daewoo in good shape for 800 bucks. Get something cheap, tear out the suspension and brakes and replace them with coolness. That way you can wad up the shell and it doesn't matter, just swap the parts around.

LainfordExpress wrote: It's interesting that the handling of C4s is being questioned, I thought they were the first mass production car to pull 1g from the factory. I'm leaning towards a C4 because what I really want is a fun car for the street, tsd rallies, and autocrosses, and after owning my 124 Spider, I've found I'm not much of a convertible guy. I test drove a 240sx, but my head touched the ceiling without a helmet (I'm over 6' and prefer to sit rather upright).

This. Ignore the guys that think the only way you can learn to participate in entry level events is with a weed whacker powered tiny tot. Corvettes offer great handling, balanced performance, are reliable, parts are easy to source, nice torque for street driving and good brakes. Man up, you can handle it.

You must know some very impressive newbies. I can't think of a single event I've done where I thought the new guys (including myself) needed more power and not more technique. Handling something and getting the best out of something are two very different standards.

A C4 Vette is a very impressive car and I'd love to have one. That said, I'm a much better driver because I started with low powered cars and I'm glad I don't have to buy 275/17 tires after every event.

There's two drawbacks I can think of to a C4 Corvette: They're less forgiving of newbie mistakes than other cars named here (first time I tried autocrossing one, I ended up exiting several turns backwards), and the wide tires they wear are pretty expensive. They are a lot of fun though; of all the cars I've sold, the C4 is the one I miss the most by a long shot.

This Miata would be a good choice. Great platform to learn on. Not mine.

Track/Street Miata for sale

1991 Mazda Miata 5 Speed 180,xxx (still my daily driver) PRICE - $5500 Trades - NOT REALLY LOOKING, but you can always entertain me

Selling my daily/track car to fund a dedicated track car project.

Car runs great. Ive had ZERO issues with the car since I bought it, and its done one hell of a job pulling double duty for a daily/track car for me.

UPGRADES

[LIST] []HARDTOP - painted to match (DARK SHADOW GRAY) []Hard Dog Hard Core Roll Bar []Koni with 700/450 SR []Ground Control Coilovers []1.8 Brakes []HAWK HP10 Pads []Jackson Racing Exaust []Short Shifter [/LIST]

Everything you need to do a HPDE with, its ready for you to jump in and drive on track or AUTOX

This was my car I was doing HPDE's with at Summit Point and VIR, will pass NASA Tech with no issues. Will also drive wherever you need to go with no issues. It was my dual purpose car for about 8 months ... and still my daily driver now that race season is over.

Car has HEAT, AC, PS, PW, HARDTOP.

Interior condition is about a 8/10 Exterior condition is about a 7/10 due to rock chips and one dent in the hood. I do have a carbon fiber hood painted the same color as the car to go with the sale of the car.

Since ive owned it ive always used synthetic oil in all of my oil changes, which usually tends to be once a month due to track events.

Car is an absolute blast to drive, and if your trying to find a car good on gas or a entry level track / AUTOX car ... this is perfect.

Not to highjack the thread, but my dilemma is that I'm 6'6" and 250 pounds, so a Miata is not going to work for me.

Sure it will. Get a spec racer aluminum seat, and drop it to the floor. I'm 6'2", and I fit with plenty of room for a helmet.

It is seriously the best track car for the money.

If it is only supposed to be a track/toy car. Start with a miata. in stock form they aren't fast in speed, but they handle which is what you need to learn.

Rufledt wrote: RX8! (i'm not biased, but, uh, don't check my garage) You never said it had to be reliable Very good handling, not really enough power to be uncontrolable, but in your price range you're looking at a series 1 which has some small reliablity problems... What i'm trying to say is, for an excellent handling rear drive car that won't get away from you, has lots of racing success, is practical for the track and expenses, and is fun to drive, then you're best option is a Mazda miata.

this was going to be my suggestion after Miata or MR2. honestly, my '04 has been stone reliable since i got it. and track work is what this car was born to do. it's quick, predictable, and handles brilliantly. and cheap, too. also really, really easy on tires. but get one without a sunroof (base or Sport); the sunroof makes wearing a helmet very difficult.

Check out the FS section of improvedtouring.com for cars and other performance bits. It's not a well traveled site but deals do pop up from time to time.

If I didn't already have an ITB prepped Rabbit I'd be looking for a race prepped Miata.

1-Whatever you are driving now if you can afford to break it 2-Nice stock or mild modified Miata so you can drive track, and road. 3-Someones Spec Miata if you want a hard core Track Day machine. However, this takes you to trailer and Tow vehicle territory, and I did not see that in the budget.

From experience, the stock Miata has the most potential for leaving the toolbox in the trunk. The stupid little beasties are pretty much a small anvil when it comes to reliable.

Not sure why you want to get so committed financially before the first track day? What if you don't like it? What if you find out you have the gift of slowness? What if you find out it does not fit the family plan? Track days take a lot of time. Racing takes all of it.

The other option is a throwaway car. Last generation Proteges up to 2002 are almost free and just need a good freshen up on the suspension and brakes. You are in like flint and only 5k by the time you drive yourself to the track. Drive it for a season and see if this is your thing.

I have an M3 - E36 built into a dedicated track car w/ a license plate, and an NA Miata with full suspension, stiffening, and bolt on power mods.

About the time I got down ti low 1:28s on Summit Point Main I was really happy to have a substantial steel car, roll bar, fixed back seat, 6 point and HANS device.

If entry level performance is autocrossing and dipping a toe into track days all the momentum cars are great - if you're going to pursue a path to wheel to wheel racing, I'd suggest e30/e36, something like that.

Or a shifter kart...

To my way of thinking, 'entry level' denotes 'not much money'. 'Not much money' says, start with what you have already in the garage (even the suv!) and make it work. When the first one is outgrown, move on, but get the technicque first.

MrBenjamonkey wrote: You must know some very impressive newbies. I can't think of a single event I've done where I thought the new guys (including myself) needed more power and not more technique. Handling something and getting the best out of something are two very different standards. A C4 Vette is a very impressive car and I'd love to have one. That said, I'm a much better driver because I started with low powered cars and I'm glad I don't have to buy 275/17 tires after every event.

Techniques is as technique does. With a proper instructor and half a clue, you don't need to start out in a putt-putt. I brought my sister to her first track day in her new 911 Carrera S. She listened, drove conservatively and has been steadily improving and having a ball. My first autocross was in a 1970 455 GTO convertible. Listened to the guys that knew what they were doing and once again, had a great time. My first track session was in a C2 Corvette-good times. That was many years, cars and races ago and I don't regret starting out with a powerful, challenging car. I didn't listen to the chorus of pusscakes telling me that an early ,short wheelbase 911 would be a poor choice as a track car either. It wasn't-and I still have it. Tires on a Corvette, while more expensive that the rubber bands on a Miata, can still be purchased for a good price and will not wear out quickly while a noob learns technique. Buy the Vette, make lots of noise, enjoy torque and steering with the throttle once you get things figured out.

forzav12 wrote: I didn't listen to the chorus of pusscakes telling me that an early ,short wheelbase 911 would be a poor choice as a track car either.

Who would say that? They are brilliant track cars and huge gobs of fun. I wish I had the one in the photo below in place of my 964 (which is also huge gobs of fun... just not as wicked cool).

Honda CRX or Civic Miata E30

I know these have already been said but it is hard to bet these.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

forzav12 wrote: I didn't listen to the chorus of pusscakes telling me that an early ,short wheelbase 911 would be a poor choice as a track car either.

Who would say that? They are brilliant track cars and huge gobs of fun. I wish I had the one in the photo below in place of my 964 (which is also huge gobs of fun... just not as wicked cool).

You'd be amazed at how many warned about snap throttle over-steer, get the post '68 cars, blah, blah, blah. Hogwash.

BTW, great shot of Tony Adamowicz's Trans Am Championship winning 911. I've talked to Tony about that very car at great length. Additionally, I painted a watercolor art piece of that car and my company offers limited edition prints(and T-shirts, Jackets) of it signed by Tony! My little '67 is days away from a complete refurbishment. It took a lot of arm twisting, a fat check and a case of good beer to pry the paint code from a Ferrari friend of mine. My 911 will be the only one(that I'm aware of) painted in a nice 50's vintage shade of Italian Grigio!

My 02 c5 Z06 Corvette was bought with 32k on it for the upper end of your price range. They are amazing cars. Tires are not cheap, but you will have supercar performance for les than 20 grand.

I'll echo what many here have said. For your first track car, the most important characteristic is that you could wad it up on the track and survive from both a safety and financial perspective. Whatever you go with, I'd recommend at least a main hoop (roll bar), fixed back seat, proper harness, and HANS device. From a financial perspective, I'd suggest you go with something cheaper like an E30, E36, SE-R, Miata, etc. Once you see how you like it and how you're progressing, you can always upgrade your vehicle later on. Better to learn on a momentum car than a rocket that will mask your mistakes.