Best Entry Level Performance Car?

Off topic for a tick, Forzav12, do you have a website for your work?

Aother thought that bear mentioning:

If you start doing track days, you are bound to get rides and swaps with other cars that will give you a much better feel for what you really want to drive. Go there i a Miivan the first time , if you have to, but I suspect that the aser to your question is going to be found at the track rather than here.

Luke wrote: Off topic for a tick, Forzav12, do you have a website for your work?

Sure, its swbstudios.com

forzav12 wrote:

MrBenjamonkey wrote: You must know some very impressive newbies. I can't think of a single event I've done where I thought the new guys (including myself) needed more power and not more technique. Handling something and getting the best out of something are two very different standards. A C4 Vette is a very impressive car and I'd love to have one. That said, I'm a much better driver because I started with low powered cars and I'm glad I don't have to buy 275/17 tires after every event.

Techniques is as technique does. With a proper instructor and half a clue, you don't need to start out in a putt-putt. I brought my sister to her first track day in her new 911 Carrera S. She listened, drove conservatively and has been steadily improving and having a ball. My first autocross was in a 1970 455 GTO convertible. Listened to the guys that knew what they were doing and once again, had a great time. My first track session was in a C2 Corvette-good times. That was many years, cars and races ago and I don't regret starting out with a powerful, challenging car. I didn't listen to the chorus of pusscakes telling me that an early ,short wheelbase 911 would be a poor choice as a track car either. It wasn't-and I still have it. Tires on a Corvette, while more expensive that the rubber bands on a Miata, can still be purchased for a good price and will not wear out quickly while a noob learns technique. Buy the Vette, make lots of noise, enjoy torque and steering with the throttle once you get things figured out.

Am I the only one who noticed that the cars you mention are, in order:

1. 70k bucks minimum.
2. A very slow autocrosser.
3. A pretty slow track car.
4. A challenging momentum car.

Out of the cars I've had occassion to drive in competition - 1975 Malibu dirt ringer, 1980 Corolla, 1990 Talon TSI AWD, the Nubira, a C4 Vette, 914, 3gen Firebird - the one that was least tolerate of throttle steer was the Vette. The ones that were most tolerant were the Firebird, the Nubira and the Corolla. The Vette and the Talon were worst for learning on because the Vette let you get away with slow cornering speeds and the Talon was stupidly forgiving of bufoonery.

MrBenjamonkey wrote:

forzav12 wrote:

MrBenjamonkey wrote: You must know some very impressive newbies. I can't think of a single event I've done where I thought the new guys (including myself) needed more power and not more technique. Handling something and getting the best out of something are two very different standards. A C4 Vette is a very impressive car and I'd love to have one. That said, I'm a much better driver because I started with low powered cars and I'm glad I don't have to buy 275/17 tires after every event.

Techniques is as technique does. With a proper instructor and half a clue, you don't need to start out in a putt-putt. I brought my sister to her first track day in her new 911 Carrera S. She listened, drove conservatively and has been steadily improving and having a ball. My first autocross was in a 1970 455 GTO convertible. Listened to the guys that knew what they were doing and once again, had a great time. My first track session was in a C2 Corvette-good times. That was many years, cars and races ago and I don't regret starting out with a powerful, challenging car. I didn't listen to the chorus of pusscakes telling me that an early ,short wheelbase 911 would be a poor choice as a track car either. It wasn't-and I still have it. Tires on a Corvette, while more expensive that the rubber bands on a Miata, can still be purchased for a good price and will not wear out quickly while a noob learns technique. Buy the Vette, make lots of noise, enjoy torque and steering with the throttle once you get things figured out.

Am I the only one who noticed that the cars you mention are, in order: 1. 70k bucks minimum. 2. A very slow autocrosser. 3. A pretty slow track car. 4. A challenging momentum car. Out of the cars I've had occassion to drive in competition - 1975 Malibu dirt ringer, 1980 Corolla, 1990 Talon TSI AWD, the Nubira, a C4 Vette, 914, 3gen Firebird - the one that was least tolerate of throttle steer was the Vette. The ones that were most tolerant were the Firebird, the Nubira and the Corolla. The Vette and the Talon were worst for learning on because the Vette let you get away with slow cornering speeds and the Talon was stupidly forgiving of bufoonery.

1). closer to 100K 2). Perhaps by today's standards. If I recall, it finished mid-pack in the group I was in. 3). Once again, not only was it not slow when compared to its contemporaries, but with nearly 400hp, pretty light weight, a nice set of Bluestreaks and Konis-it was quite fast. 4). challenging, to be sure. Momentum? eh, maybe. Mine has a hot 2.2, short gears, is very light and pulls quite hard out of corners, thank you.

BTW, just a minute sampling of the cars I've been fortunate enough to pedal on a track. Although, they don't include a nubria or corolla.

Not everybody is adventurous, or poorly funded.

Actually, the 80 Corolla has a very similar chassis to the AE86 without the drift tax. The Nubira, it oversteers ...

Boogalou wrote: Not to highjack the thread, but my dilemma is that I'm 6'6" and 250 pounds, so a Miata is not going to work for me.

You definitely do NOT fit a Miata. No offense. Try a Vette or BMW.

Excellent points being made and I'm definitely reshuffling my list after reading through this thread. To answer a couple of questions - this will not be a car specifically for the track, it will be my every day driver except in the winter. I won't be able to purchase two either, at least not anytime soon. Also, there's a small local track nearby and they do offer classes that I'll be taking. So that's good.

To those saying that the S2 may not be an ideal pick, if it's one with the chassis revisions would that change your assessment? Otherwise I'm leaning towards an MX5

In reply to Tac: If you want a Miata-ish car without the Miata, I would really suggest looking at the 3rd generation MR2. They're more comfortable and great to drive.