Best source for a "reasonaly priced" aluminum SBF

I am seriously considering building an all aluminum Ford Windsor, who, what. where.

How much weight saving is the aluminum block over steel.

I am looking to get near as I can to an 8K redline

Any info welcome

Steve

(dammit reasonably)

the phrases "reasonably priced" and "aluminum Ford Windsor block" don't belong in the same sentence.. or paragraph.. hell, they should never be in the same book.

unless you are dead set on building a Ford based engine, the answer to your question is "LS". the physical size and actual layout of the engine is damn near identical, and if you get the front mount distributor kit and ditch the coil packs on the valve covers, they almost look like a Windsor. they are so close that people even use off the shelf headers for a Windsor engine and weld on LS flanges when they put them in Mustangs...

Alum block will set you back 4k minus machining..... and save you 80 pounds or so.

$$$. Is the answer 1UZ FE? Close to windsor dimensions. Can make some power.

Do you need to save 80 -100 #s? Can you move enough stuff (cheap) to avoid dropping coin on a lighter block?

I was able to find a 9.5" deck height, 4.125" bore (351 windsor based) block in the ford racing catalog for $3500.

I used to fantasize about buying a splayed, 4 bolt main block with an 8.2" deck, a 4.125" bore and putting together the right combo of stroker bits to run a 5.956" or 6.125" rod and 12:1+ compression with a 3.25" stroke billet or forged crank and spin that sucker to eight or nine grand all day long.

My uncle had an old Camaro with a 327 that he claims he used to shift at 8,500+ rpm...he blew up a lot of clutches.

Coyote?

The_Jed wrote: I used to fantasize about buying a splayed, 4 bolt main block with an 8.2" deck, a 4.125" bore and putting together the right combo of stroker bits to run a 5.956" or 6.125" rod and 12:1+ compression with a 3.25" stroke billet or forged crank and spin that sucker to eight or nine grand all day long.

You will run out of either stroke, sub 1" worth, or compression height, pin will be into the piston deck, to run 6" of connecting rod length. Oh and if you followed the NMRA Hot Street class at all, they were spinning almost 9k with "dump truck" motors, or motors that measured 430-440 cubes. They spun about 5-600 rpm LESS then the 400" motors.....

The_Jed wrote: My uncle had an old Camaro with a 327 that he claims he used to shift at 8,500+ rpm...he blew up a lot of clutches.

Not going to say it's an outright lie....but the truth to claims like that are complete bullE36 M3. That ranks up there with the Mustang and Nova ads in the dumbest thing you read on the net thread....

Only way to get a "cheap" alumimum block is to swap to modular power or run a different manufacturer produced powerplant.

Dart and World Products also make aluminum SBFs. You can probably find prices for them on the Jeg's or Summit websites.

Ranger50 wrote:

The_Jed wrote: I used to fantasize about buying a splayed, 4 bolt main block with an 8.2" deck, a 4.125" bore and putting together the right combo of stroker bits to run a 5.956" or 6.125" rod and 12:1+ compression with a 3.25" stroke billet or forged crank and spin that sucker to eight or nine grand all day long.

You will run out of either stroke, sub 1" worth, or compression height, pin will be into the piston deck, to run 6" of connecting rod length.

The_Jed wrote: My uncle had an old Camaro with a 327 that he claims he used to shift at 8,500+ rpm...he blew up a lot of clutches.

Not going to say it's an outright lie....but the truth to claims like that are complete bullE36 M3. That ranks up there with the Mustang and Nova ads in the dumbest thing you read on the net thread....

Are you saying you've never heard of a 327 that was shifted at 8500? I'd agree if it's stock, but you certainly can get them to do it. While not at all the same engine or situation, I had a 289 with a stock crank and rods with ARP bolts that I shifted routinely at 8k. I didn't even blow clutches. I know of some vintage racing Camaro guys that are spinning their 302's to 10k, although the engine is far from stock.

bravenrace wrote: Are you saying you've never heard of a 327 that was shifted at 8500? I'd agree if it's stock, but you certainly can get them to do it. While not at all the same engine or situation, I had a 289 with a stock crank and rods with ARP bolts that I shifted routinely at 8k. I didn't even blow clutches. I know of some vintage racing Camaro guys that are spinning their 302's to 10k, although the engine is far from stock.

Off topic really far now...

I'm not implying that, I know it could be done even back then. I am just saying stupid stories like that rank up there with "the car accelerated so hard back then you couldn't grab a $100 bill off the dash from a standing start until you were well into 3rd gear...." crap that keeps getting passed around still in this day in age.

Back to the regularly scheduled program...

The_Jed wrote: Coyote?

The physical difference in size is staggering.

I can't find the pic, but I know it's out there. The modern DOHC V8s are absolute monsters in size compared to cam-in-block, 2v V8s like the Windsor/LS1

Size and weight are my primary motives, and while the LSx isn't as big as a Mod or Coyote it is significantly larger than a 302 Windsor.

LSx is played out in my mind, too easy and too common.

I am not looking for much over 400 hp, for the application it would be to no advantage. Weight is primary, size is secondary and rpm runs third in the list.

Oh, it will be a V8.

oldeskewltoy wrote: Do you need to save 80 -100 #s? Can you move enough stuff (cheap) to avoid dropping coin on a lighter block?

1. Yes
2. No stuff to move

aussiesmg wrote: I am not looking for much over 400 hp, for the application it would be to no advantage. Weight is primary, size is secondary and rpm runs third in the list.

Then where does cost factor in?

aussiesmg wrote:

oldeskewltoy wrote: Do you need to save 80 -100 #s? Can you move enough stuff (cheap) to avoid dropping coin on a lighter block?

1. Yes 2. No stuff to move

add more horsepower to counteract the added weight.

MrChaos wrote:

aussiesmg wrote:

oldeskewltoy wrote: Do you need to save 80 -100 #s? Can you move enough stuff (cheap) to avoid dropping coin on a lighter block?

1. Yes 2. No stuff to move

add more horsepower to counteract the added weight.

That is the opposite of the plan, sorry but that is not an option

The cheapest aluminum Windsor was sold in '98-02 Firebirds and Camaros.

If you want, you can stick Ford valvecovers on it, or GMPP (I think) makes a timing cover set that incorporates a mounting for a distributor, fittingly enough for a 302 Ford.

In reply to aussiesmg:

I think that the 1UZ mentioned above is your best option. I THINK that they are quite a bit lighter than the a windsor and will do what you want. They are bigger size wise but as for as light weight V8, your choices are the 1UZ and the 60 degree engine used int the 3rd gen SHO (3.4L) and its brother used in the Volvo S80/XC90 (4.4L). The 4.4L Volvo was also used in the Noble M600 (whatever they are making now) so they must be capable of making power. The heads were designed by Yamaha.

Requirements do not compute. What about CF hood and other lightweight front end bits?

What hood

Has there been a manual transmission successfully attached to the 1UZ

Requirements do not compute. What about CF hood and other lightweight front end bits?

aussiesmg wrote: Has there been a manual transmission successfully attached to the 1UZ

Yeah, multiple times. (With the right combo of Toyota parts bin stuff and either the right bellhousing or an adapter plate, it bolts right together.)

http://bit.ly/TVV8Mh

What is the weight of the 1UZFE?

How much is required to reach 400hp and a strong redline like 8K?

Is this even feasible

$1K for the kit to use the manual and whatever is needed to get to 400hp, is it actually less expense than a simple but expensive aluminum block 302