You could run an entire rookie season of Briggs World Formula (60 MPH on the faster courses) for $3000.
Your second year racing TaG (75 MPH on the sprint tracks, nearly 100 on road courses) will cost about that much.
Given how much stuff I break autocrossing compared to karting I'm not convinced autox is a dime cheaper - and you get to go wheel to wheel in something that pulls 3g or so on a rubbered-up track.
bluej wrote: Is there something like dwarf/legends or do Dwarf/legends ever race road courses?
Sort of. F600 is similar. At least with regards to the size and the engine source.
Based on your 3 metrics (Cost, Competition and Performance) I do not think anything comes close to karting. Some will say: "Well, if you dont mind to run midpack..this race series". I can assure you running midpack in karting will be cheaper.
Some thoughts to consider: Consumables are cheaper, replacement parts are cheaper, towing is cheaper. Rebuilds can be more frequent than on cars, but again, they are cheaper. Chance of total loss is smaller.
On average, I would say the skill level of karters is higher. Its an extremely steep learning curve and the people who stick around are damn good in racecraft and pace. Can't say the same for car guys (Im a car guy, looked into karts). It is so damn easy to get a race license its not even funny. I remember some guy on hondatech got rearended, the guy was pushing way too much in the school and actually got air over a crest before rear ending the other student. Still got a novice license. Therefore competition is greater.
Performance: your average Rotax Sr. kart is fast. Real fast. Cornering is immense, like you need a rib protector to survive a session immense. A shifter is basically baby formula. Its a different skillset then say something like Spec Miata but I would say a karter can adapt to cars better then the other way around. They get used to quick reactions and can anticipate anything the car is doing long beforehand.
Also, probably the easiest thing to tow out of anything suggested. Hell, some guys (not recommended) bring their karts on the roof of their sedan.
An ICC is mind-scramblingly fast; so fast that maybe a quarter of all shifter drivers are faster in the shifter than they would be in a TaG.
Sugar Hill Speedway: 3/10 of a mile, 9 corners, 12 shifts, 22 seconds (my lap record), 73 MPH at the end of a 300-foot straight. Like flying an F15 through a parking garage.
Having recently switched from cars to karts(KM Shifter) for my autocross drug, I will say a few things about them.
They're by far the best MPH/$ deal out there. My shifter will do 0-60 in under 3 seconds and pull over 2G(maybe 3G), for less than $4k all in. $200 sets of tires doesn't suck.
They're kind of a pain in the ass. I'm not just talking about physical pain. There's a reason they're now classified under Mod. They may not require Mod levels of cash, but they can require Mod levels of time. For instance this year I've replaced:seat, axle, tires,helmet, gloves, carb needle, exhaust seals, Piston/piston ring, rear caliper, MC seals, brake pads,spark plug, fuel pump mount, ign coil mounts, fuel tank. Granted some of this is "UsedCarBaselineitis" parts replacement, but other bits are regular wear items. EVERYTHING is disposable. Right down to the frame. They soften up and their handling gets.. mushy and don't respond to changes.
They're physically demanding. VERY demanding. If you're not in shape, you will be worn out at best, and downright dangerous on track at worst. The plus side of this is if you're overweight, or out of shape, it'll motivate you to remedy that, if nothing else via the HUGE adrenaline rush. Last weekend for kicks my wife put her heart rate monitor on before she ran. She hit over 180bpm from a resting rate of under 50...on a course less than 40s long.
Like flying an F15 through a parking garage.
Sounds about right. Driving a shifter is half instinct, and half balls. No time to really think.(at least autocrossing). I just counted my shifts on my 39.5s run from sunday. 19 shifts.
I want to switch to Karts in auto-x... since no matter what class I run, it always seems like I end up being the bar-code scanner for them. If you can't beat 'em...
And they do look ungodly fast for the $ involved. Don't think you can do hill-climbs with them, tho...
No hillclimbs that I know of. You can take them to your local sprint track just about any weekend and run it though for a few bucks.
Thanks for all the input guys. I hadn't considered karts, but I'll give them another look. Although I have to be honest, just at a glance they don't interest me. But I'll look into it.
Another reason I was mostly looking at Spec series, is I'm not terribly handy with modifying cars. I don't have a lot of experience, so I would prefer a set path rather than a guideline to go off of. And while I know some people prefer the jump in head first method, I'm not a fan.
Again, thanks.
You can't go wrong with any of your ideas. Go to SCCA/NASA events, hang out with competitors and watch different series. Who do you enjoy hanging out with the most? Who do you want to have next to your door as you bomb into a hairpin turn? That's the series to go with.
If they have them there, also consider Legends or Thunder Roadster. Those also give the advantage of being able to race roadcourses or ovals.
Some times you can find already built IT cars for cheap. A lot of times it is cheaper to buy one then build it yourself.
93EXCivic wrote: Some times you can find already built IT cars for cheap. A lot of times it is cheaper to buy one then build it yourself.
+1
Samples here
I also agree that it's best to hang out first before actually buying a car. There are some cars I like, but these cars compete in a class that tends to be a bit more rough and tumble than I'd like.
In reply to Drewsifer:
If you're really still in Harrisonburg VA you need to get up on a Sat/Sun morning early and head out to Summit Point (1.5 hours north of you) for a kart till you puke event, for an arrive and drive, and it's literally like 12 hours of sessions of which you will be lucky to physically be able to accomplish 8-10 (1-1.5 hours of seat time) and be exhausted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbYQU_PxN0U (not my video, and these are the 'slow' RX7 carts that run up to 50 MPH)...
bluej wrote: Is there something like dwarf/legends or do Dwarf/legends ever race road courses?
Legend cars are road raced, here's an in car video of one at Hallett in Oklahoma: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDJH6l0Q39I I've been on the track at the same time with the Legend guys and they're pretty fast.
You can run a legends car cheaper than a LeMons due to entry fees, and other BS. I did a thread on the cost analysis and it was really close with the Legends taking an edge cost wise.
Now that being said,
Find something you like local and something you can grow in. Given where you are you should have many choices.
Don't rule out tunnel boat racing either. Awesome sport.
Good Luck and may you finish all your races running!
You'll need to log in to post.
