It's time for new tires. The Kumho Ecsta XSs are done. A while ago, I had a set of G-Force KDW2s, and they seemed pretty fantastic for the street. The question is, should I get those again, or has technology left them behind? Should I be looking at the recent crop of 200 treadwear autocross tires? What else have you found that punches above its weight, so to speak? Anything surprisingly good for how cheap it is? Size is 225/50-16 or 225/45-16.
Primary usage will be driving 10 miles one way to work rain or shine, driving in an irresponsible manner on backroads, and autocross or track day when it's too wet for the old, used Hoosiers. Car weighs about 3200 with driver, and makes about 400rwhp.
If budget is as important as performance I'd shoot for something in the next range like the first gen rival or the direzza star spec? They're a fair bit cheaper than the newest fastest crop.
Yeah, you might even find yourself happy with the Hankook RS3 if it's available in your size, especially if you live in a warm climate.
I've been thinking about the RS3, but I'm not sure about them in the rain.
I live in Pennsylvania, so the climate changes daily. :)
In reply to snailmont5oh:
If you have a competitive streak I don't think that you will like the RS3 in any weather you wouldn't run the Hoosiers. I did a hot dry instructor run in a 400hp ESP mustang on them last weekend and they were nice and predictable. (actually i beat a car on Hoosiers but he must have been having a bad day)
DunlopZ2 star spec seem to be popular for street and track rain use but i haven't run them personally.
Or, you could always read the recent GRM "Street Tire Shootout" test to get an idea of which tire might suit you best...
Anything in the 200tw category works fine in the rain, just stay out of any kind of standing water at speed (puddles, etc.)
The Rival S isn't great in the wet. The RE71R is pretty good in the wet and just as good in the dry as the Rival S. For the money the RE71R is a good tire and Bridgestone is offering a $70 rebate at the moment either instantly at Costco or via gift card on Tire Rack.
The RE71R is grippy right down to the cords as long as you keep them out of the cold.
I'm kinda surprised nobody told me "They're just street tires, just get the damned Sport Comp 2s" yet.
At $103 each, the BFG g-Force Sport Comp 2 is pretty darn good for a street tire (340 treadwear) and will acquit itself nicely at the autocross. No experience on the track, but no reason it wouldn't handle an occasional session.
snailmont5oh wrote: I'm kinda surprised nobody told me "They're just street tires, just get the damned Sport Comp 2s" yet.
Personally, I'm in the camp of run the stickiest tire that won't be awful in the rain, too loud or wreck your mpg and will last halfway decently. More grip isn't a bad thing for a DD tire, as it means you've got a better shot of stopping or having enough grip to swerve around something when the E36 M3 hits the fan in front of you.
If you're going to autocross and track I'd do the RE71R. They're also better than old Hoosiers for grip. If you drove more miles a day I'd say get something else, but why compromise?
I have the Sport Comp 2's on my Firebird. They do a decent job, pretty good considering the price. They won't bring home trophys, but you'll have enough tire to have fun with. They do like higher pressures (38 to autocross) and do get slippery when hot.
The main reason that I have the BFGs stuck in my head is this: three days after picking up my brand-new KDW2s, I was on my way to an autocross at Lake Erie Speedway. The weather was fine until I got about 10 miles from the track. The skies absolutely opened up. It was the heaviest rain I had ever seen. Hell, I might have even been driving through a microburst for all I know. Traffic was very slow in the right lane. I've always been the type to drive as fast as I safely can, and since I had just Rain-Exed the windshield, I really couldn't tell how hard it was raining. I wasn't having any trouble with hydroplaning, so I really didn't understand why everyone was going so slowly. It turns out, at 70 mph, I was throwing wake over the roofs of the cars in the right lane, and the car was absolutely planted. I thought that was pretty good. I did end up slowing down, just because that much speed differential is generally a bad idea. But man, those tires sure did pump some water.
snailmont5oh wrote: The main reason that I have the BFGs stuck in my head is this: three days after picking up my brand-new KDW2s, I was on my way to an autocross at Lake Erie Speedway. The weather was fine until I got about 10 miles from the track. The skies absolutely opened up. It was the heaviest rain I had ever seen. Hell, I might have even been driving through a microburst for all I know. Traffic was very slow in the right lane. I've always been the type to drive as fast as I safely can, and since I had just Rain-Exed the windshield, I really couldn't tell how hard it was raining. I wasn't having any trouble with hydroplaning, so I really didn't understand why everyone was going so slowly. It turns out, at 70 mph, I was throwing wake over the roofs of the cars in the right lane, and the car was absolutely planted. I thought that was pretty good. I did end up slowing down, just because that much speed differential is generally a bad idea. But man, those tires sure did pump some water.
I've had similar experiences with my KDW2s. I try not to drive that vehicle in the rain anymore, but they shed water pretty well from what I can tell. They're the best performance tires I've owned yet, but I don't have any experience with the 'latest and greatest' either.
I personally like to run the harder compound summer tires like the G-force KDW2 on the street, and just run the autocross (200 treadwear) tires on the course and the drive to the race. I have a set of G-Force Rivals, and they're not as fun on the street because there's too much grip IMO, and the car doesn't rotate as much under power in the corners.
snailmont5oh wrote: The main reason that I have the BFGs stuck in my head is this: three days after picking up my brand-new KDW2s, I was on my way to an autocross at Lake Erie Speedway. The weather was fine until I got about 10 miles from the track. The skies absolutely opened up. It was the heaviest rain I had ever seen. Hell, I might have even been driving through a microburst for all I know. Traffic was very slow in the right lane. I've always been the type to drive as fast as I safely can, and since I had just Rain-Exed the windshield, I really couldn't tell how hard it was raining. I wasn't having any trouble with hydroplaning, so I really didn't understand why everyone was going so slowly. It turns out, at 70 mph, I was throwing wake over the roofs of the cars in the right lane, and the car was absolutely planted. I thought that was pretty good. I did end up slowing down, just because that much speed differential is generally a bad idea. But man, those tires sure did pump some water.
As long as they are at full tread or reasonably close to it, the RE71 will do that too. I got caught in torrential downpours leaving two or three NEPA events last year, and I could do 60 mph down the 2-lane portions of 309 with no fuss, when everyone else wanted to do 30.
As several people and myself have indicated the RE71R is fine in the wet if you have decent tread on them. They are not full tread tires to start with though, but because of this they wear much better for performance driving than a full tread tire will wear. IMO it's basically a waste to buy a full tread tire if you're going to do autocross and track days because you'll just end up beating the hell out of whatever extra tread they have on them.
Best scenario is you buy an extra set of wheels, put the RE71R on them for your performance driving days, you can swap them at your home before an event and then swap back to something cheaper with a more reasonable tread depth and wear rating for daily driving. You can still drive to events on them unlike on Hoosiers and if you leave them on for the summer months it won't hurt them. Like I said, the RE71R is basically good right down to the cords, but it is obviously still good for performance driving long after it loses enough tread to be good for wet weather driving.
Harvey wrote: As several people and myself have indicated the RE71R is fine in the wet if you have decent tread on them. They are not full tread tires to start with though, but because of this they wear much better for performance driving than a full tread tire will wear. IMO it's basically a waste to buy a full tread tire if you're going to do autocross and track days because you'll just end up beating the hell out of whatever extra tread they have on them.
This is a good point. A friend of mine with an E46 discovered that with driving the car kinda hard all the time and occasionally autocrossing it, a set of Conti DWs actually wore faster than a set of ZII Star Specs...
My R888s did fine in the wet at the track. So did the well worn R1Rs I drove on a Miata this past weekend.
Take into account the conditions, slow down appropriately.
I don't get the "I can't do 85 in a downpour, these tires suck in the rain" camp.
RE71Rs if you're OK with replacing them sooner than you might expect, because these wear down pretty fast for a "200TW." If you want more life at the cost of some grip, get Dunlop Z2SS.
I've had the pleasure of running RS3s in the pouring rain on Friday night. They did OK, but the RX8 with its somewhat duff alignment felt rather squirrely.
I've run R888s in the rain in the UK and wouldn't do it again unless I absolutely have to. They don't make for a great DD tire either, although I've used them for that as well. I would certainly buy another set of R888s but only if I had a set of dedicated track wheels and then you may as well run Hoosiers.
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