Bizarre which HPDE car thread: Audi TT FWD or widebody Starion?

In reply to BoxheadTim:

People are talking about StarQuests in the sense of a long term project car.

My take on the TT is, you put better pads on it, track-oriented rubber, change the fluids, and have at it.

In reply to Knurled:

Well, more than that. Upgrade to FSI coil packs, replace every hose with silicone, replace the plastic thermostat housing, etc etc...

My power-related mods for either would probably be relegated to an intake, turbo-back exhaust and tuning. ~230hp for either. The question is, after that point, do I prefer to beef up suspension, brakes and cooling (Starion) or replace cheap factory plastic and/or electrical E36 M3 that has no place on such an expensive car (TT).

It is also worth noting that the TT is subject to OBDII difficulties and full emissions testing, whereas the Starion would basically be good to go with whatever.

It might come down to whichever shows up with the best combination of price/condition first.

The Internet says all that stuff is bad. In the field the coil packs aren't the nightmare that they are claimed to be and the only plastic stuff I've seen fail is the "oil funnel" (dipstick tube) and all of the air injection tubes that go brittle when the diverter valve fails and allows exhaust gases to backflow up to the air pump. And water pump impellers for people too cheap to replace the water pump at timing belt service. (The Internet will also tell you to install a pump with metal impellers. They don't work as well as the plastic ones, don't do it!)

IMO, any plastic issues could be greatly mitigated by simply discarding all of the underhood cladding. That stuff holds the heat in.

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The owner has been trying to sell me the one in San Diego for a few months now.

1/2 of this thread is relevant to my interests. The Audi TT part. I have wanted one for a couple of years now. I need to watch this.

noddaz wrote: 1/2 of this thread is relevant to my interests. The Audi TT part. I have wanted one for a couple of years now. I need to watch this.

I did a clutch in one once, which has absolved me of any desire to own any transverse AWD VWAG product.

And it was a 180hp model, not the twin intercooler 225hp model.

The part that mainly got me was the hidden bolt that holds the bevel drive unit to the transmission. The right side output cup goes through the bevel drive, bolting straight to the differential. IIRC, I had to MacGyver an 8" long 7mm Allen socket to get it loose. Bevel drive/output cup/bolt have to go in and come out as an assembly because the chassis rail is in the way, so if the output seal ever leaks you have to remove the whole assembly to service it.

The funny part is, the procedure specifically mentioned that the bevel drive to engine block support could not be removed/installed with the bevel drive in place - and they was lyin'.

Not a job I'd want to be doing on 24" jackstands.

The FWD gets you 90% of the handling for 40% of the pain in the ass, since the Haldex isn't tuned to be very agressive. I'm also a fan of twist beam suspensions so in that respect I am all for the FWD.

Knurled wrote: The FWD gets you 90% of the handling for 40% of the pain in the ass, since the Haldex isn't tuned to be very agressive. I'm also a fan of twist beam suspensions so in that respect I am all for the FWD.

The endless pissing match that is VWVortex would have you believe that the 225 quattro is in a different league from the 180 FWD and that anything less than a 225Q is a waste of time, but I have a hunch the FWD is just as quick as a 225Q around a dry racetrack. The difference between the two is 300lbs and 45hp, and that's before you account for Haldex's driveline loss (which I have been told is rather significant). Just a tune alone will get the 180 up to those levels, and with more power under the curve (smaller turbo, higher compression).

The TT seems to conceptually have been intended as a lightweight, purist sports car, which makes it a shame that VW started adding weight and complexity leading up to the penultimate ~3400lb 3.2 V6 model. On the flip side, I've seen reports of guys getting the 180 FWD models down to around 2600lbs while remaining streetable; there's a big-ass counterweight behind the rear bumper that was added after the high-speed autobahn crashes, the useless rear seat can be lost immediately, then if you lose the spare tire before swapping to a lighter battery, seats and wheels you are pretty much there.

Starquests are great fun to drive and look oh so sexy even in stock trim. The drawback will be finding parts for them. The TT will have better aftermarket support, but doesn't look near as good. Tough call you have there.

In reply to pointofdeparture:

How track oriented will the car be Vs. street? I've got a Starion Lemons car, and absolutely love it on the track. Being a Lemons car, a LOT of weight was removed. They are fairly light cars with a lot of heavy stuff added in. You can pull a lot more weight out of it than you can comparable cars. I wouldn't be surprised if my Lemons car weighed less than my Miata. With basic mods (3" open exhaust, DSM 14B turbo, DSM MAF, boost raised to 12psi) it makes plenty of power for it's weight, and lots of torque. Doesn't like to rev, but makes so much torque that you can pretty much just shift when you feel like it. The handling was terrific considering we had to make the suspension parts ourselves. Very easy to drive. Of course, the cars were successful endurance racers back in the day.

Drawbacks- The throttle body injection is a bit of a pain. The stock ABS sucks, and removing it saves a lot of weight, but that means no ABS. Brakes are small, but not bad with a lightened car if you keep the HP down.

In reply to Boost_Crazy:

I'm basically looking for something I could drive to and from an event 3-4 hours away or take on the occasional weekend cruise without it being completely unbearable. Carpet and windows are staying in, AC would be nice but not mandatory.

I do think both the TT and Starquest are equally gorgeous cars, albeit in very different ways. I was born in the late 80's, and was entering adolescence when the TT first came out; it looked so focused and futuristic, so I will always like them. The Starion of course is basically the last bastion of 80's box flare goodness which is also a great look.

I forgot to add, the stock wiring on a Starion would likely be an issue. Fuseable links instead of a fuse box, and much of the underwood wiring would be dry and cracked. No bid deal for the Lemons car, we just swapped to a fuse box for essential systems and removed everything else. Could be more of an issue on a street car.

For the OP I would recommend the best TT you can find. Go through it and go to the track.