I started to work part time at a shop and I have been a craftsman guy my whole life and always wanted snap on tools. Now working at my friends shop he is letting me use his tools but is kinda hinting I should at least get my own normal tools. Not the specialty tools, he said I can use his no problems. I found a really good deal on some blue point tools. What do you guys think of blue point tools? If not blue point then what do you guys think.
Tools are tools for the most part, ive heard advice here saying buy harbor frieght and if you break it have them swap it out then buy a quality tool to replace it. Personally i worked as a full time mechanic for a while with a $99 huskey 150ish piece kit and the other grease monkey i worked with was borrowing my tools. Basically try not to fall into the allure and trap of thinking you need a ton of real nice tools you wont use all, get a decent basic kit and add what you need but pretty much every tool maker has a lifetime warranty so as long as you dont mind swapping them out when/if they break. Sorry i gave you multiple options but never answered about blue point tools mainly cause ive never heard of them so dont have any imput, only what ive done and seen recommend here
I'd buy Carlyle or the black box stuff from NAPA, Powerbuilt, Craftsman, Husky, or Kobalt. Absolutely NO berking reason to pay the extortion fees to the tool truck guys!
Vigo
PowerDork
4/28/16 12:58 a.m.
As much as i love this place, i also recommend you go start reading the tools forum at Garagejournal.com.
What i've found over the years (much of it as a professional auto tech with ASE Master + L1 certs and an Associates in Automotive Technology, followed by now being an instructor at a vocational school) is that you can do a whole lot of skimping on larger tools and should buy high quality pieces for smaller tools.
Things like small Torx bit sets have a huge variation in actual useful durability when comparing cheap vs expensive. Things like large 1/2" impact sockets are difficult to break (and the large fasteners difficult to round off) even from the cheapest manufacturers. That is a basic guideline i am comfortable espousing.
As far as particular brands, i don't believe in limiting myself that way. When you really start looking around there are tons of manufacturers making good tools with tons of variety on small details that someone else might not value but you find very appealing. A lot of your happiness using tools on a daily basis just comes from how you 'feel' about them, which isn't necessarily 100% based off their 'quality' but can come down to things like the shape of a handle or knurling on the edge of an extension, or even some ostensibly silly things like color. I say check out as many different brands as your attention span will allow. Variety is the spice of life.
I used Craftsman and SK while working as an aircraft mechanic because my Snap-On rep was a useless tit.
Now, I buy Snap-On. Yes, it's more expensive, maybe the quality is better but the fit and finish is outstanding, not to mention the service.
Sometimes it's good to work with a tool that just does it's job perfectly. Snap-On gets that.
And, nobody makes a better #2 Phillips screwdriver than Snap-On.
peter
Dork
4/28/16 2:06 a.m.
If I was wrenching for a living, I'd want to make sure that whatever tools I used either never broke or were incredibly easy to replace. That's part of the allure of the tool truck: the tools come to you. If you can afford an extra set or two of Harbor Freight sockets/wrenches/screwdrivers and don't mind swinging by there on Sunday or after work to exchange something, that could be a legitimate path.
To riff on Vigo's input - figure out where you can't afford to have a tool make your life miserable. The torx example is a good one, but I'd personally throw in 10, 12, and 14mm sockets & wrenches, because those are the ones I use every time I do something on my car. It's comforting to feel how solidly that 10mm socket sits on that almost-completely-inaccessible nut deep in the engine bay. To me, the sheer frustration, let alone time, of getting out a rounded-off fastener makes up for the difference in price.
I'll second the garage journal recommendation, especially the tool truck equivalents thread (make sure you are reading the most current). I am very satisfied with the quality of the Williams tools I bought based on information in there.
NickD
Dork
4/28/16 5:18 a.m.
I got some Blue Point tools and they're pretty damn good. They may be Snap-On's low end brand but there's nothing really cheap or lacking in construction. While I trust Harbor Freight and Kobalt for sockets, wrenches and ratchets, when it comes to air tools, it pays to buy better. Avoid the Mac silenced air tools though, like their AW612Q 1/2" drive impact. It's quiet and makes unbelievable power but it uses that stupid clutch drive setup and mine blew up every 6 months even with proper maintenance. Ended up trading it for a Snap-On MG2275. Ingersol-Rand impacts are pretty good and, strangely, with I-R, the cheaper the gun the better it is. Be warned though, they are loud
STM317
Reader
4/28/16 5:19 a.m.
My work box is mostly Blue Point stuff. My home boxes are mostly Craftsman, although a lot of that was inherited. Not too many issues with either manufacturer. I feel like most tools will get the job done the same regardless of the name on the side. To me, a screwdriver is pretty much a screwdriver. That being said, for things with moving parts like ratchets, the stuff from the more expensive brands really seems nicer. Using a Craftsman ratchet after using Blue Point all day at work there's a noticeable difference in feel and ergonomics.
Snap-On comes around the shop every week, at best. You wait until the truck comes to replace your broken tool. If they come less often, or you're not there when they come, you wait even longer to replace your broken tool. This is ok for a full time mechanic, far less so for a part-time mechanic or a at-home DIY person.
Sears is almost everywhere. You walk in with your broken tool and walk out with a replacement. This is very convenient for the at-home DIY person, and not bad for the regular mechanic who wants his broken wrench replaced today. However, you're limited to what they have in the store at that moment. That's OK for generic hand tools. Not OK for specialty tools or special editions of generic hand tools.
In reply to foxtrapper:
Re: Sears tools. The current craftsman hand tools (ratchets sockets screwdrivers) are absolutely junk and a waste of money, they aren't even trying anymore. I couldn't recommend them to anyone for any use.
44Dwarf
UltraDork
4/28/16 8:11 a.m.
I'm with Andy. I used to love Craftsman tools but that changed about 15 or so years ago, now I don't buy there I just go the laugh at how light and cheaply made they are. It's sad really they used to be reasonable priced good tools...
Blue Point on the other hand it great stuff, however I have only older stuff so I really can't say. The ones I do have like my valve grinder circa 1955 is still going strong and the wrenches don't hurt my hands when I use them.
Kobalt stuff I generally like I love there small 100 socket sets I have 4 one in each vehicle
HF stuff. I really hate we have so many tools at work from HF and I've been tossed out or spoken too twice by paying customers about the "junk quality" tool and how much we charge for field service labor. Some of it is pure compressed dog poop others are fine after a week you'll know what ones not to buy again.
HappyAndy wrote:
In reply to foxtrapper:
Re: Sears tools. The current craftsman hand tools (ratchets sockets screwdrivers) are absolutely junk and a waste of money, they aren't even trying anymore. I couldn't recommend them to anyone for any use.
Shrug, swap in the local tool name of your choice then.
I've not found the current Craftsman tools to be all that bad. In fact, after I broke several Snap-On hex drivers, I replaced them with Craftsman and those haven't failed yet.
foxtrapper wrote:
Sears is almost everywhere. You walk in with your broken tool and walk out with a replacement.
Not for long from what I've seen/heard. KMart is on the skids and parent Sears isn't far behind. I predict there will be billions of orphaned tools shortly.
Case in point: I had a dusty box of broken Craftsman tools I finally got around to bringing in. Out of 8 tools they had ONE in stock. NO 3/8 ratchets in stock, and if they did they would be made in China not made in USA like my broken ones. Clerk couldn't just order for stock and I come back, plus 3 tools weren't in his system at all. They WERE online however. After 20 frustrating minutes the manager comes and says to total up the cost of my tools online, make a receipt-less return in the form of a gift card, order the tools online and have them shipped directly to me. I asked if I could just get cash or said gift card and he said no. An hour later (that's an hour and a half total folks) I had a receipt for an order to be drop shipped to my door and they had (on paper) a returned in box vacuum pump, a $20 shipping bill, and my broken tools. Which they chucked in the garbage. Also a useless gift card with $5 left on it from miscalculating. Watched them cut it in half.
Fast forward a week and I get a box with 6 tools in it, and email that one tool is on back order, and an email that one is NLA ($3 socket) so here have this $10 store credit on us. They amount of time and money wasted on this is mind boggling, and obviously unsustainable. The last words from the clerk as I left the store shaking my head? "Yeah, and that is why we are going under".
I've made my bread and butter with my tools since 1991 (ASE Master Auto tech and Airframe&Powerplant mechanic). Myself, I have gotten to the point that I only buy high end tools anymore, but never off of the truck. The internet has leveled the playing field when it comes to tool shopping. Here is what you need to know about Blue-Point tools.
The early stuff was made in USA copies of SnapOn with a more industrial finish. The same folks made them, just a satin finish as opposed to full polish for example. They were mainly marketed to industrial applications. I personally have owned and earned my living with a set of Blue Point made in USA wrenches for 25 years now.
Modern Blue Point is Asian manufactured. I personally wouldn't buy it. My opinion.
I think too many folks place too much emphasis on warranty. Good tools used in a reasonable manner simply don't break. Once you learn the ropes, you find that stripping of fasteners or breaking of tools is greatly reduced by technique and proper tool selection. I can't remember the last time I broke a tool honestly.
I'll say it. The HF wrenches/ratchets/sockets aren't bad and come with a lifetime warranty and I can return easier than sears.
I'm no pro, but I'd rate myself a prosumer. I've been beating on the same set of Husky sockets and ratchets for more than a decade - including using the ratchet as a hammer a few times. No issues. I even use the sockets on my big 800-lb-ft IR impact gun. I keep waiting for one to go, but they just don't seem interested in breaking.
I've had good luck with the Masterforce sockets & ratchets from Menards. They are made in USA (I think Allen?) and have a lifetime warranty, and Menards is closer to my house than Sears (actually, Sears HQ is closer to my house than a Sears store now). All that said, I'm barely a DIYer.
I don't like swearing at my tools, so a lot of my basic tools are Snap-On or Blue Point I bought used. I'm not even sure I'd qualify as a prosumer, but I do prefer the feel of professional tools over HF and the likes.
I do have a bunch of HF tools and I take those to the track, but for the quiet despair in my garage I prefer the "good stuff".
I agree with Vigo. I have been a professional mechanic since late 60s(metric tools were cheaper than standard tools then). Working flat rate, tools need to fit properly, be strong and durable, yet thin/small enough to fit in tight spaces. 6 point wrenches/sockets work better than 12 point if you wrench in the rust belt. Ratchets are not created equal, finer mechanisms work better in confined areas. I use 1/4 and 3/8 sockets/ratchets 95% of the time. I was also an instructor at a technical college and our students had to buy their tools. I saw a lot of inexpensive junk being purchased by hard earned dollars. I would not buy a tool made in China and would be suspect of others produced in Asian countries. Quality tools will last a lifetime or more if not lost or stolen.
Im a big fan of kobalt for the small stuff. Works well on all my rusty crap and even better on the non rusted stuff :)
I've got a mixture of Craftsman, Mastercraft, Greystone, Cen-Tech, GearWrench and some assorted other bits. I have only ever broken one box end wrench and that was a Gray from my grandfather's basement. It was at least 50 years old. If I were earning my living with my tools I'd probably buy higher quality, but I've seen the truck pricing from the two companies that supplied the maintenance guys where I used to work.
NickD
Dork
4/28/16 10:05 a.m.
Fitzauto wrote:
Im a big fan of kobalt for the small stuff. Works well on all my rusty crap and even better on the non rusted stuff :)
The Kobalt swivel-head ratchets are the E36 M3! Had those for 3 or 4 years and haven't broken them yet.
Snap on ratchets and screwdrivers are worth the investment. Wrenches and such you can go cheaper without regretting it.
I have tried the HF road.. after breaking everyone of them (including a 3/8s 6 inch extension the first time I used it) I went to Kobalt over at the local Lowes. I know they are not the same as Snapon or Blue point.. but I find them on par with the craftsman tools of old... bit a much bigger selection. I find their "stubby" wrenches to be worth their weight in gold
Vigo
PowerDork
4/28/16 10:53 a.m.
To be fair, I think Harbor Freight's quality has gone up as much as Craftsman's has gone down. I'm not a huge fan of most of their sockets (I do have 12pt deep 1/2"dr metrics from them) or wrenches but their ratchets are pretty good now and their service tool sets (oil pressure, fuel pressure, leakdown, seal drivers, etc) are decent and probably the most 'accessible' when you need something now.
One thing i've learned since going on Garagejournal is about some of the truly fantastic tools you can get from europe and japan!
The majority of tools i own by sheer number are probably old USA Craftsman but the majority of my purchases are tools made in Taiwan (which is a huge % of the brands you can think of). I think the stereotyping of country of origin on GJ can border on or cross well into racism, but in my experience it's much more difficult to discover any deficiency in tools of Taiwanese manufacture than it is for Chinese manufactured tools. Some people are big on 'finish' but i generally just care if something breaks or not.