bmw E36 s50b32 swap into a non M car?

iv been playing with the idea of doing a s50b32 into a non M car like a 325i iv seen people do it to e30s and e36s but they weren't m3s, i'm just wondering do i really need to have a m3 to do this swap? since the 325i doesn't have as good of suspension or brakes as the m3, of course i could upgrade or just swap parts from a m3,all i really want is a nice clean e36 making at least 300 hp all motor witch is what the euro engine can do it has 321 hp stock, basically i just wanna make a screaming all motor e36 that we never got in america.

It'd be easiest in an M3, and the brakes/suspension/interior are all nicer than a non-M car. The cheapest and easiest way to do this would be to buy someone else's finished project for which the swap could be bought at less than a $1-$1 ratio. I'm a fan of buying someone else's dollars for quarters - provided they didn't F things up. And that's the hard part.

I was at VIR in my e36 M3 - which is internally stock but has a light flywheel, under-drive pulleys, electric fan, ASC delete-M50 manifold-Conforti intake/software - UUC/Corsa exhaust. On track same time was another e36 M3 w/ an s50b32 - and on the long straight it was a friggin' missile. Guy wasn't a great driver, but that motor was ~stout~.

When mine finally pops it's on the short list for sure.

The M3 suspension is not much of an upgrade and at this age not worth bothering with. The European M3s had a larger rear end. The US M3 had a different rear subframe than the non-Ms and reinforcements on the chassis were that mounted.

You might as well go S54B32 instead of S50B32. I think I'd go for a V8 swap instead of either. Adding a turbo to a M5X also sounds a lot easier.

I'd suggest a hybrid M5X engine--without the dual VANOS and other electrical problems. Start with an aluminum block M52B28 from a Z3. You might be able to bore those steel sleeves out. If so you could use the pistons and crank from a 3.2L engine. Otherwise use the pistons and crank from a M54B30. Use the intake and ECU from M50TUB25, though the ITBs from a European S50 or S54 could probably be used without too much trouble.

Short Engine Specs

M50TUB25 297.6 lbs 189 hp 184 lb-ft
M52B28 265.7 lbs 190 hp 206 lb-ft (Z3)
M54B30 264.6 lbs 235 hp 222 lb-ft (ZHP)
S50B32 339.5 lbs 320 hp 258 lb-ft <-- you really want this one?
S54B32 327.4 lbs 333 hp 262 lb-ft
S65B40 306.4 lbs 414 hp 295 lb-ft (E90 M3)

I am pretty happy with the stock engine in my 325i, but a bump in low end torque would be useful. And that mainly just requires more displacement. I wouldn't mind loosing loosing some mass off of the front either.

^this guy is on to something.

I'd drop in a 5.0/LS1 before I'd mess with an S52 swap in an E36...........S52 in an E30 is another story, I owned one and it was awesome.

So, either buy an E36 M3........or swap a V8 in a non-M E36.

Oh, and you can bolt the M rear brakes up to the non-M subframe, you just lose the ebrake functionality I believe.

thanks guys, at first i wanted a s54 swap but it cost a lot more money then a s50b32 swap and its a lot more complicated id like to do that to a e30 in the future maybe, plus the s50b32 its a drop in swap from what i hear so that's another reason i'm leaning more towards that then a s54, thanks for the input guys.

the US S50 (which if I understand correctly is more closely related to the M50 than to the Euro S50) is getting pretty cheap...I saw a 3.0 on CL a couple months ago for $1750 with the trans and LSD included, supposedly in good running shape.

so how much are the euro S50s? As for suspensions.. I have the Bilstien PSS9s on my Ti.. between them and the 328 brakes (ti's used smaller solid rotors) I can out brake and outhandle most of the E36 and E46 M cars out there (at least if they are in stock or mildly upgraded). So upgrading the suspension on a non-m Car is really trivial.

Much like subarus.. BMWs are legos too

mad_machine wrote: so how much are the euro S50s?

Curious to know this too. I would think euro S50s would be pretty expensive, but have no idea.

Euro S50/52's are mentioned from time to time on the E30 forums. Besides the actual purchase cost there is the shipping issue. It's been awhile since I was deeply involved with them (the 97 M3 was sold in '04), but I understand its not terribly difficult to bring a US engine to Euro specs these days... Or at least within the cost differences.

The S54 sounds great, but I think a S52 with FI would still be cheaper right now, although as the E46 continues to age this may change.

There's a guy on e30tech with a s/c s52 e30 for sale. Looks like a nice car, but the asking price means he'll be waiting awhile for a buyer with the cash on hand.

I believe there is a fellow in Toronto who imports complete Euro swaps for about $5k, FWIW.

mad_machine i like your 318 its real clean i like it, yea i thought about trying to bring the us spec s50/52 up to euro spec but i would only be able to bring it up to stock specs of the euro engine, and the euro engine has 321 hp and iv herd all motor u can get them up to at least 350 hp ill have to research that more, yea 5k is what the swap cost unless u want the 6 speed transmission then it goes up more

The S50B32 is a cool but very expensive option. It used to be quite popular for race cars but... with the reasonable availability of the S54 from wrecked E46 M3s it is totally outclassed.

If you are determined to go the b32 route... watch the BMWCCA Club Racing classifieds in the fall. My guess is that a lot of guys will be ditching them for S54s just to stay competitive in mod classes.

I'm actually sad, S54's used to be about half as expensive as they are now. And the weight listed above for them must be including the dry sump oiling system as otherwise they shouldn't be near that heavy.

I want an s54 for the ti, but for 1/3 the price I could have a M62 4.4L/6sp combo and standalone. For the record, it would be reasonably close to the power levels, weight, and cost of an lsx, but still allow you in lower SCCA classes than X-Prepared(unlike the lsx or eurospec engines)

yamaha wrote: I'm actually sad, S54's used to be about half as expensive as they are now. And the weight listed above for them must be including the dry sump oiling system as otherwise they shouldn't be near that heavy.

You're saying prices for an S54 have gone up? I'm not saying they haven't, but that surprises me, given that they are aging. I'd love to put one in my e46 sedan and build my own e46 M3 4 door!

Stay tuned!

The August issue of GRM (on sale very soon) has a feature on a E36 / 4 door / 5spd that was M-ified. It 's a pretty bitchin machine with a ton of details on how it was done.

now that's what i'm talking about thanks, ill keep a lookout for it.

dyintorace wrote: You're saying prices for an S54 have gone up? I'm not saying they haven't, but that surprises me, given that they are aging. I'd love to put one in my e46 sedan and build my own e46 M3 4 door!

I think they've gone up since the swap has become easier and better documented. For a long time it was considered "nigh to impossible" on the interwebs.

The S54B32 and S50B32 are pretty similar and quite a bit different from any of the US E36 motors. They are both dual VANOS motors. It is certainly possible to get either to work in a US E36, but neither is a drop in, and probably not worth the hassle.

The S52B32 is really the limit for a drop in, and even that requires some additional work for the early cars. It is also possible to bore out a M50TU or M52 to S52 specs and swap in the rotating parts. The M54B30 and the 3.2L share the same crank.

Personally, given my M50TU is working quite well as is. Some low compression pistons and a small turbo sounds like fun. Otherwise a drop-in hybrid using the Z3 single VANOS aluminum M52 block.

I read this recently in an article regarding tuning the M50/M52. Sounds like it could be a neat set up for a non-M motor. Anyone here ever do anything like this?

Article said: For those tearing their motor apart without interest in forced induction, Active suggests using your stock 325i or 328i block and pistons and installing S50 crank and rods from a '95 M3. Your displacement will be bumped to 2.9 liters with the compression increasing to about 11.5:1. The neat thing about this setup is Active already has software running with factory M3 cams that nets 215-220whp using an AA track pipe (no cats) and muffler. That's more power than a stock E36 M3. Additionally, AA can order you a set of custom-ground cams that reportedly increase that figure over 240whp in some cases.

dyintorace wrote: I read this recently in an article regarding tuning the M50/M52. Sounds like it could be a neat set up for a non-M motor. Anyone here ever do anything like this?

Article said: For those tearing their motor apart without interest in forced induction, Active suggests using your stock 325i or 328i block and pistons and installing S50 crank and rods from a '95 M3. Your displacement will be bumped to 2.9 liters with the compression increasing to about 11.5:1. The neat thing about this setup is Active already has software running with factory M3 cams that nets 215-220whp using an AA track pipe (no cats) and muffler. That's more power than a stock E36 M3. Additionally, AA can order you a set of custom-ground cams that reportedly increase that figure over 240whp in some cases.

Yes. It is a lot of money for a disappointing result. A junkyard S50 is cheaper and has the same output. An S52 has a little more. An S52 with OBD-1 swap, cams, euro MAF, headers and software are the NA cheap route to 250wHP here.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

dyintorace wrote: I read this recently in an article regarding tuning the M50/M52. Sounds like it could be a neat set up for a non-M motor. Anyone here ever do anything like this?

Article said: For those tearing their motor apart without interest in forced induction, Active suggests using your stock 325i or 328i block and pistons and installing S50 crank and rods from a '95 M3. Your displacement will be bumped to 2.9 liters with the compression increasing to about 11.5:1. The neat thing about this setup is Active already has software running with factory M3 cams that nets 215-220whp using an AA track pipe (no cats) and muffler. That's more power than a stock E36 M3. Additionally, AA can order you a set of custom-ground cams that reportedly increase that figure over 240whp in some cases.

Yes. It is a lot of money for a disappointing result. A junkyard S50 is cheaper and has the same output. An S52 has a little more. An S52 with OBD-1 swap, cams, euro MAF, headers and software are the NA cheap route to 250wHP here.

how much lighter is the aluminum block z3 2.8L for this setup though? i'd love to maintain the lighter front end in my M3 and i've heard about this but never met anyone who has one.

I've got what I like to call and S52B28 in my E30 (M52 with M50 manifold/OBD1/S52 cams) and it pulls like a train in my 2500# track rat. I haven't dynoed my package but I pull a friends car at the track that per him put down 208 to the wheels with a similar package (I have a 540 MAF, 24# injectors and a flywheel) so you can make some decent power with this setup. Its a little peaky (likes to be over 3700 RPM at all times) but when in the sweet spot its a lot of fun...

Also apparently a dressed AL block M52 weights it a few lbs lighter than a dressed M20, so you save a good 30#'s over an iron block just that you better make sure it's never been overheated...

http://www.eurotuner.com/techarticles/eurp_1104_budget_track_day_car/index.html this is interesting, if only it had a engine swap then it would be perfect.