In reply to MrJoshua :
The income levels are higher than that, we qualify and we are well above those numbers.
Yep here it is. $150,000 individual, $225,00 head of household $300,000 filing jointly.
Plus local benefits such as state or city.
Limited to MSRP of $55,000 for cars and $80,000 for trucks.
Warranty on the batteries varies from 8-10 years or 100,000 miles.
There is a magazine out.
The complete guide to
ELECTRIC CARS.
Compares the top 65 cars
including the Bolt.
The Bolt EUV has available the the Super cruise ( hands free driving) with a range of 247 miles. Level 3 charging will get 100 additional miles of range in 30 minutes.
Prices are $27,000 for the base Bolt and $33,000 for the loaded EUV with super cruise.
In reply to frenchyd :
If you pay for the optional SuperCruise, it's free to use for the first 3 years, but requires a monthly subscription after that point.
STM317 said:In reply to frenchyd :
If you pay for the optional SuperCruise, it's free to use for the first 3 years, but requires a monthly subscription after that point.
My reason for the super cruise is as a drivers aide in my last years of driving. I doubt I'll be taking long trips with an EV. My wife's limits would prevent that.
But if I last into my late 80's/ 90's having the car assist my growing limitations would keep me in my own home and out of retirement/ rest homes.
I'm a planner. But I accept the idea of a plans fluidity as events and circumstances change.
In reply to frenchyd :
Take a close look at Chevy's map of the roads you can use it on. IIRC they are only allowing it on roads their system has actually traveled and mapped. That meant a lot of highways around me, but almost nothing in my town. I'm sure there's a lot of autobraking and collision warning stuff that helps avoid accidents in town, but it wouldn't be driving for me unless I took a trip.
93gsxturbo said:As someone with a plug in hybrid I can tell you with absolute certainty there is no real money savings in it. A few data points from the real world:
- My plug in hybrid was ~$75k out the door. Even with my tax credit it was $67k.
- It needed a $400 charger plus another $300 in materials (conduit, outlet, breaker, wiring) to make it remotely practical. If I would have had to pay someone that $300 would have bene $1500.
- Driving 20ish miles a day adds $50 a month to our electric bill.
That all being said, it is quiet. It is cool. The roof and doors come off. Its fun to dabble my toes into EV ownership where our use case would not support a full EV.
But it doesnt save you money, thats for damn sure. A paid off Avalanche with an 8.1 and gas at $5 a gallon would cost me way less to drive 20 miles round trip every day.
At $75,000 I can understand your claim that it doesn't save you money.
I'm looking at a new Chevy bolt which out the door with tax and license will be < $25k
Because we will have it paid for in 2 years and expect it to last the rest of our lives or 20 years. We won't have deal with inflation. Solar panels and wind generators make electricity effectively free.
Fuel such as it comes from the Desert, jungles, and the North Atlantic . I mention those places because oil even if it comes from America it competes price wise with those places. It also has to be transported to a refinery and from the refinery to a local gas station where you have to drive to it to get a full tank.
Electricity can come from your roof and back yard and is in a form where it's useable in your garage. In the morning you simply unplug the charger and go directly to where you want to, without the side trip to the gas station.
Our Electric rate is significantly lower than yours and the price I mentioned included the installed charger. ( GM budgets $400 for them).
MrJoshua said:In reply to frenchyd :
Take a close look at Chevy's map of the roads you can use it on. IIRC they are only allowing it on roads their system has actually traveled and mapped. That meant a lot of highways around me, but almost nothing in my town. I'm sure there's a lot of autobraking and collision warning stuff that helps avoid accidents in town, but it wouldn't be driving for me unless I took a trip.
I doubt I'll be taking trips and don't really feel hands free is important. But thank you.
New rules released yesterday.
The Bolt qualifies for the full $7500 credit. However, I have come to the realization that at this point I don't think I can utilize the full credit in 1 year. The old credit didn't roll and I can't find out if the new one does or not. Maybe I will see what is available next year when my wife plans on going back to work. Or if gas hits $6 a gallon and I have to fight everyone else for a cheap EV.
frenchyd said:...My reason for the super cruise is as a drivers aide in my last years of driving. I doubt I'll be taking long trips with an EV. My wife's limits would prevent that.But if I last into my late 80's/ 90's having the car assist my growing limitations would keep me in my own home and out of retirement/ rest homes.
I'm a planner. But I accept the idea of a plans fluidity as events and circumstances change.
I don't want to know what your medical situation is, but my dad's mental decline caused him to lose his license (not a bad thing...). It was his poor decision making on the road that did it, and a self-driving car would have been unable to help, especially since the inspector carefully watches the driver more than what the car is doing. Come to think of it, I bet that'll be a thing - DMV inspectors requiring drivers to turn off all driving aids so that they can better assess the driver themselves. Anyway, it can't hurt to have, just don't expect it to perform miracles.
It's still cheaper to fix and drive the old beater you have and pay for the gas rather than buy a new car and deal with borrowed money, leases, full coverage insurance and tax credits.
Get back to me when they have 10 year old Bolts for sale on Craigslist and you can buy replacement batteries at Harbor Freight.
In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
Dude, the OP asked for info on EVs that meet ALL his all criteria.
Offer some info on EVs
In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
With all due respect, in THIS specific instance your math is wrong. It's NOT cheaper for Singleslammer to fix his old beater than to buy a new car.
The new car cost is $28K, minus the $7500 rebate. He is planning on selling the Astro and the Town Car. Assuming they are worth $5K each, that means his loan amount is $10,500.
6 year car loans are now available. Let's assume 5 years at 6%. His payment would be $203. That's $2436 per year.
He drives 15,000 miles per year in a car that gets 18 mpg. He is spending $2833 per year in gas.
Assuming ZERO repairs on the old vehicles (which is impossible), the new car would cost $397 LESS per year than the old beaters.
So no, a new car does NOT always cost more than driving the old beater you have.
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:It's still cheaper to fix and drive the old beater you have and pay for the gas rather than buy a new car and deal with borrowed money, leases, full coverage insurance and tax credits.
Get back to me when they have 10 year old Bolts for sale on Craigslist and you can buy replacement batteries at Harbor Freight.
It's been shown right above that new is cheaper.
Neglected is oil changes. None on the EV and 3,000 miles on the beaters. With regen on EV's brakes last massively longer on an EV than beaters.
Then once you add the risk factor. Re; insurance. Those old "beaters" ( your words) likely have collision only insurance. So if damaged in an accident are 100% loss whereas a new car with a loan would be required to have full coverage. And you would be made whole minus deductible.
There is a good possibility the insurance on 2 beaters is higher than the insurance on a new car.
The time savings isn't mentioned here either. Driving to a gas station does take some time. How much? But surely more than the 30 seconds required to plug in. Your EV. Plus whatever time you will save by not having to work on your cars.
PS. GM warranties the battery 100,000 miles and will only warranty a ICE 50,000 miles yet both last much longer than the warranty. so you won't be buying a new battery in 10 years.
So for '23 the tax credit still applies at tax time. I have read that in '24 it will switch to a credit at the time of delivery. IE, straight discount on purchase price. However, I have also read that GM is going to making the Bolt at the end of the year. If they replace it with another inexpensive electric, cool I'm in for '24. If they don't, I suspect that I am waiting until something else meets the criteria I am looking for.
SV reX said:In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
With all due respect, in THIS specific instance your math is wrong. It's NOT cheaper for Singleslammer to fix his old beater than to buy a new car.
The new car cost is $28K, minus the $7500 rebate. He is planning on selling the Astro and the Town Car. Assuming they are worth $5K each, that means his loan amount is $10,500.
6 year car loans are now available. Let's assume 5 years at 6%. His payment would be $203. That's $2436 per year.
He drives 15,000 miles per year in a car that gets 18 mpg. He is spending $2833 per year in gas.
Assuming ZERO repairs on the old vehicles (which is impossible), the new car would cost $397 LESS per year than the old beaters.
So no, a new car does NOT always cost more than driving the old beater you have.
You forgot to figure fuel for the new car into your equation. The national average to drive a Bolt is $4.26/100 miles. You need to add $639 to the cost of the Bolt.
In reply to Toyman! :
No I didn't. Singleslammer has a solar system.
I also didn't figure the insurance differences, or the repair costs of the 2 old beater vehicles.
The point wasn't to be perfect at the math (only the OP knows his details). The point was that there is nothing wrong with Singleslammer seriously considering this, and that the cost differences IN HIS CASE are negligible. The old beater isn't necessarily cheaper.
kb58 said:frenchyd said:...My reason for the super cruise is as a drivers aide in my last years of driving. I doubt I'll be taking long trips with an EV. My wife's limits would prevent that.But if I last into my late 80's/ 90's having the car assist my growing limitations would keep me in my own home and out of retirement/ rest homes.
I'm a planner. But I accept the idea of a plans fluidity as events and circumstances change.I don't want to know what your medical situation is, but my dad's mental decline caused him to lose his license (not a bad thing...). It was his poor decision making on the road that did it, and a self-driving car would have been unable to help, especially since the inspector carefully watches the driver more than what the car is doing. Come to think of it, I bet that'll be a thing - DMV inspectors requiring drivers to turn off all driving aids so that they can better assess the driver themselves. Anyway, it can't hurt to have, just don't expect it to perform miracles.
I can understand your comment. I'm excellent. Tested medically and driver skill annually because I'm a school bus driver.
Paul Neumann ( the actor) drove a Porsche at the LeMans 24 hour race in his 80's. He also raced A Jaguar in the Trans Am and raced SCCA run off's. In his 80's.
Plus I've known others who are racing late in their life.
The Purpose of self driving is not to have an electronic Chauffeur. Rather to react faster than an old man normally would. Warn him about people in the blind spots etc.
Every month a senior can remain independent is $5000 + the tax payers won't need to be paying for his assisted living. Yep, $60,000 a year!!!
In reply to Toyman! :
Electricity must be extremely expensive in your state.
frenchyd said:In reply to Toyman! :
Electricity must be extremely expensive in your state.
Do you read? Do you comprehend what you read? Did I mention the cost of my electricity? Do you do any research before you spew a page of your nonsense? Did you see the words "national average"? Pretty sure the answer to all of those is, no.
Still wondering which EV you drive Frenchyd. I'll keep asking. I suspect I won't get an answer this time either.
Currently, the tax credit is given when you pay your taxes so the purchase price of the vehicle (and any associated financing) is still hypothetically $28k minus the downpayment. And getting the full $7500 back isn't guaranteed either.
Missouri also charges an extra $75 registration fee for EVs.
Super cheap EVs can make financial sense. But EV ownership math is highly individual. Location matters a ton more than typical ICEs because that determines any credits available, electric rates, viability of solar power generation, extra annual registration fees (if any) etc. Some locations make EV math easier than others. Everybody has to do the math for their own situation.
SV reX said:In reply to Toyman! :
No I didn't. Singleslammer has a solar system.
I also didn't figure the insurance differences, or the repair costs of the 2 old beater vehicles.
The point wasn't to be perfect at the math (only the OP knows his details). The point was that there is nothing wrong with Singleslammer's seriously considering this, and that the cost differences IN HIS CASE are negligible. The old beater isn't necessarily cheaper.
I assume his current solar system is offsetting his current power bill. If that power is instead used to charge a vehicle, there is still a cost for charging.
The beater may not be cheaper in total dollars. I don't know his personal situation or how many cars he has, but I wouldn't be able to sell my gas fleet and only own a small EV without a fairly drastic lifestyle change. The EV would have to be an additional vehicle and I would have to keep my current daily for road tripping and towing.
In reply to Toyman! :
That's not what he said in the first post of this thread. He said he was considering selling 2 existing cars and buying a Bolt.
He talked about the specifics of his cost per kWh on page 2.
In reply to SV reX :
Yes, I read all of that. Thanks.
I could sell two 26-year-old cars and still have 8 left in the yard. I don't know if Singleslammer is as dedicated to old cars as I am. 
There was no information as to if his solar system was grid-tied or not. I assume it is. Most of them are.
singleslammer said:With the BRIC stuff, we are concerned that oil prices are going to start working their way up again. Currently, I drive either a Chevy Astro or 96 Town car. These both get around 18 mpgs. I am considering selling both for a Bolt. It seems like the only EV that meets all my criteria (Cheap, liquid cooling, easy to find, decent range, and most importantly CHEAP). The used market on these seems to bottom out around 18K for higher miles near me. I don't really want one that needs work though. A new one is $27k. The new one should qualify for the full tax credit though, right? So then we are at 20k. A used one might get the partial credit but then it is still not a huge difference between a new one and a 5 year old one. Is this accurate?
If you aren't settled on a Chevy Bolt. There are some note worthy cars coming by next year.
To me the most interesting is the new Tesla. If it sells for the $25,000 that has been talked about. After the tax rebate it would be $17,500! Yes it qualifies to the IRS requirements.
A few features include a new Drive motor with special wires to gain efficiency. New 48 volt electronic modules made by Tesla the prime advantage is efficiency. They don't lose energy being converted up to or back from 48 volts. In addition to that, the on line system will be able to "fix" problems. Plus any upgrades that are currently done on line will include those.
Tesla comes to your place to do any repairs rather than have you bring it in like Chevy and most other companies do.
VW will also be introducing a low priced Car to compete with Chevy and Tesla.
The Honda / GM alliance will also be be introducing new EV's
All of them will be available in 2024.Only the Tesla is sure to conform to the IRS rulings for the rebate.
In reply to Toyman! :
I don't understand your point. Selling 2 cars to buy 1 is a net reduction no matter how many cars you have.
I made no assumptions about grid-tied solar. The man said his electricity was "nearly free". I took him at his word.
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