Bolt EV new vs used: am I missing something?

SV reX said:

In reply to Toyman! :

I don't understand your point.

I got that. One of us isn't doing a very good job at this discussion. Since I don't really care if we agree, I'll move along. 

Thanks again. 

frenchyd said:

singleslammer said:

With the BRIC stuff, we are concerned that oil prices are going to start working their way up again. Currently, I drive either a Chevy Astro or 96 Town car. These both get around 18 mpgs. I am considering selling both for a Bolt. It seems like the only EV that meets all my criteria (Cheap, liquid cooling, easy to find, decent range, and most importantly CHEAP). The used market on these seems to bottom out around 18K for higher miles near me. I don't really want one that needs work though. A new one is $27k. The new one should qualify for the full tax credit though, right? So then we are at 20k. A used one might get the partial credit but then it is still not a huge difference between a new one and a 5 year old one. Is this accurate? 

If you aren't settled on a Chevy Bolt.  There are some note worthy  cars coming by next year.  
 To me the most interesting is the new Tesla.  If it sells for the $25,000 that has been talked about. After the tax rebate  it would be $17,500!  Yes it qualifies to the IRS requirements.  
  A few features include a new Drive motor with special wires to gain efficiency.   New 48 volt  electronic modules made by Tesla  the prime advantage is efficiency.  They don't lose energy being converted up to or back from 48 volts.  In addition to that,  the on line  system will be able to "fix" problems. Plus  any upgrades  that are currently done on line will  include those.   
      Tesla comes to your place to do any repairs  rather than have you bring it in like Chevy and most other companies do.  
  VW will also be introducing a low  priced Car to compete with Chevy and Tesla.  
The Honda / GM alliance will also be be introducing new EV's  

  All of them will be available in 2024.Only the Tesla is sure to conform to the IRS rulings for the rebate.   

Tesla hadn't even designed this car yet, nor built the manufacturing facility.  There is ZERO chance any will be available in 2024, and way less than ZERO chance that any will EVER sell in the US for under $25,000. 
 

Those aren't facts. Those are you mixing up details that don't go together. 
 

For the foreseeable future it will be far easier to find a yellow spotted unicorn than a baby Tesla under $25K. 

In reply to SV reX :

It took Tesla 9 months to build their Giga factory in China.  Mexico is extremely eager to see it constructed.   
      Trained, well educated Mexican workers cost 1/3 the cost of Chinese labor. In fact China already has 27 factories in Mexico to replace their aging work force.  
    I use the $25,000 number because that is the  target Elon Musk set for it.  That is also the price point in the middle of the $20- 30,000 market Elon Musk is aiming for.  A market of 700 million cars.  
       Frankly I don't care if it's over or under that price point.  Nor do I have a particular deadline.   
    I've followed the design and construction details.  Some of which I've listed.  ( I really wish I could figure out this copy and paste stuff ). 
      
Against all the opposition Elon Musk has created an EV market. He doesn't advertise. He keeps building a better, more affordable car.  He's creative, innovative and works hard. 
 I may not like his politics or how he does things. But you simply have to admire the success he's had so far. 

In reply to frenchyd :

I've read the same stuff you have. Probably more (I'm a stockholder). 
 

We have different opinions. I stand by my comments.

Singleslammer is asking for input about current new vs used EVs, particularly the Bolt. There is no offering from Tesla right now that meets his criteria, and there is no $25,000 Tesla. 

There was also never a $35,000 Tesla Model 3 (although Musk promised one for years)

SV reX said:

In reply to frenchyd :

I've read the same stuff you have. Probably more (I'm a stockholder). 
 

We have different opinions. I stand by my comments.

Singleslammer is asking for input about current new vs used EVs, particularly the Bolt. There is no offering from Tesla right now that meets his criteria, and there is no $25,000 Tesla. 

You are correct if the OP intends to buy immediately.   I did preface my statement  with the comment" If you aren't settled on the Bolt there are some interesting cars coming out next year".   
        
 My interest in EV's start a while ago  back when Elon Musk was introducing the series 3.   One of my neighbors bought one at near the $35,000 offering but with shipping, license,  and taxes  it was over $40,000.   So I'm not in love with any particular number. I've bought enough cars to understand the  costs involved. 
     Anyway my wife tentatively agreed but it took her a while to arrive at that point.  Enough so the price moved out of our consideration.  
     
           Then we started looking at other EV's. We quickly were turned off by the Nissan Leaf when another neighbor bought one that had endless problems and never once achieved anything close to its advertised   range.

   Luckily   The owner had financed it and simply turned it into the selling dealer.  ( dealers sign recourse on car sales). While it dinged his credit rating. It doesn't matter to him.  
      I digress.   
     I kept hearing good things about the Chevy.  The battery recall seems to have been well handled.  While my wife fell in love with the looks of the Volvo,   we never  could get one to try.  
  Then like Tesla suddenly the price went out of our reach. While Chevy lowered the price on the Bolt.  
   A Brief affair with hybrids by my wife.     Fortunately she eventually agreed that two propulsion systems  was unduly complex.   
     We are now waiting on the new Tesla or the Honda/ GM partnership offering.  

        
     

Put in an order for a Bolt EUV today. It will likely be a few months before it gets here so not likely to hear anything else about this for a while.

Side note, anyone want a 2002 Astro cargo van with 56k miles or a pretty nice example of a 96 Town Car with 161k miles?

I think you'll be very happy with the EUV. My brother bought one last year.

Tell us more about this Astro? And well... Town car too. Sorry the text got weird.

In reply to clutchsmoke :

Th astro is a former dry cleaners delivery van. It is white and is in pretty good shape for what it is. I have a couple of things that I need to fix before selling it. I think that the clutch on the AC compressor seized up. I have a replacement clutch for it. Then there is an EVAP code I need to chase down.

The town car is a nice driver that has very little wrong with it. The interior has a few issues but it runs, drives fine. I rebuilt the front suspension with all new parts.

In reply to singleslammer :

That's a good choice.  I'm glad for you. 

The Astro is likely GRM fodder but the town car is likely too normal and easily acquired locally, wherever local is for you.

Picked up a 2023 Bolt EV in Ice Blue Metallic on Saturday. I hadn't driven one yet and was pleasantly surprised by the experience. Need to order a level 2 charger and then drive it for 200,000 miles.

In reply to singleslammer :

That's exciting!

How much did it cost?

Well done.   Congratulations 

In reply to SV reX :

It was $29,604 out the door, in MO I then still have to settle up taxes at the DMV. It was MSRP plus $199 doc fee. I am happy with this as there are still places where these have a mark up and a 5 month wait list.

In reply to singleslammer :

I like your to-do list :) Congrats!

I had all but decided to get a Bolt, but then voluntary retirement was offered, so now I don't drive enough to justify it. The price of electricity here (SoCal) continues to soar, and our local electric company is making going solar harder to break even. So that, and because a new Prius came out that people actually... like... has me considering one. Just another data point on how everyone's situation is different.

In reply to kb58 :

Yep, if I didn't have solar, the Prius would have been very appealing. However, then it would have been hard not to just buy a gen 2 Volt with similar EV range for $10k less but that is a whole different thing.

I'm kb58's replacement at his job, and I intend to switch back to electric this year.

The main question is: do I go back to a Tesla Model 3 and risk a voided warranty for towing a 750-lb kart trailer, or get a Bolt and hitch? I hate FWD, I hate upright seating positions, but I'm not sure about ticking off a single-source-for-every-part company on a powertrain that's expected to have a long lifespan and whole-module replacement. 

In reply to chaparral :

Well, I can't answer that for you. I don't mind the seating position. It isn't minivan/SUV upright by any means. It also doesn't feel like driving a compact car though. Personally, I don't understand the aversion to FWD in a commuter. It isn't a fun car so meh... I have other stuff if I am feeling like driving something that isn't strictly to move me from place to place.

Nice purchase!

singleslammer said:

In reply to SV reX :

It was $29,604 out the door, in MO I then still have to settle up taxes at the DMV. It was MSRP plus $199 doc fee.

Was that in the Columbia area, or elsewhere? Asking because I'm in KC. 

In reply to BAMF :

Waynesville on I44 south of Rolla. Lowe Chevy. If you go there, tell them Jordan Wheeler sent you so I can get $100!

I'm about done parking my full size truck in compact parking lots and dealing with endless stop-and-go traffic, and am ready for something small and compact. This weekend we looked at the new Prius and Bolt/EUV. The Prius is right at 15 ft long, which seems very typical. Due to my garage layout, less would be nicer. Also, there is no rebate (in California at least) due to it being assembled in Japan, which leads to the Bolt...

It seems like a good value for what you get, as the 2023 had a big price cut, and it qualifies for the full $7.5K rebate, meaning that even the fully loaded model out the door is <$30K (assuming the dealer doesn't play games). They had a regular Bolt parked next to an Bolt EUV, and personally I like the slightly smaller Bolt, and don't quite get what they were thinking, making the two so similar. I understand that the EUV has an option of full self-driving, but I don't want to go there. That said, I'm going to ask our car insurer if having self-driving has any effect upon insurance rates. I read somewhere that it makes a significant difference, but I won't believe it until I hear it from them.

We've only started the search and haven't looked at anything other than the above two. I will not buy a Tesla for several reasons, a big one being Elon's unpredictability. If tomorrow he says that he's selling Tesla because he's bored, how surprised would we be?  I don't want to own something where I have to be concerned every time his name pops up on the news. Regarding the upcoming $25K model, I know better than to wait for the Next Big Thing. He's often overpromised in the past, so... Also, I think the magic surrounding Tesla has faded, as there are now many competitors nipping at their heels, they're no longer the only game in town - not everyone needs 0-60 in 3.5 seconds in bumper-to-bumper traffic... they rather have utility and value.

Our other car is a Jaguar F-Type R, and while it's enormously fun to drive on open roads... it is turning out to be nearly as frustrating as Midlana was in our heavy traffic. Also, it turns out that its very limited internal storage space keeps us from driving it, well, a lot of the time. Seems like we're always picking up something that's too long, too large, too dirty, or too smelly. I find myself in the very odd position of having come from hardcore sports cars, to potentially giving it all up and going all the way to the other extreme, to an impotent nondescript unexciting EV, and... being okay with that for what I get in return.

Regarding going with an EV, we don't drive much, so I'm not sure if that argues for or against an EV. Not driving much means the cost of gas becomes less important, but the same can be said about the cost of electricity. We could get a small gas car and have no concerns about longer trips, but for big road trips, we'd likely take the truck or rent something, so EV range becomes less important.

On a somewhat related note, there's something my daughter-in-law said about their Tesla Model 3 Performance that struck a nerve. She said that her husband is extremely protective of it, worrying about where it's park, will it get bumped by shopping carts, other car doors, or whether a wheel might get damaged by getting too close to a curb. She said that when she arrives home, he examines it for damage, and she said that part of her wishes for the old beater they had - something that didn't cause anxiety. (Yes, I know, First World Problems.) That anxiety comment stuck in my head and has been eating at me, as I have a similar situation concerning the Jaguar that's expensive to insure, something I hardly drive, something that I worry about door dings, reliability, potential repair costs, etc. A small compact car for shopping would go a long way toward removing that self-imposed angst. The search/though experiment continues.

[Edit] Hmm, reading through this thread, it appears that the tax credit will not benefit us. I went here to confirm: IRS rules on EV credits, "... The credit is nonrefundable, so you can't get back more on the credit than you owe in taxes. You can't apply any excess credit to future tax years..."

I'm in somewhat similar situation. One last car before the long dirt nap. 
   I've got the pickup and the Jaguar. ( not to mention the Jaguar Vintage race car). But the little run around car.  Something cheap and reliable. To go to the doctor, dentist and shopping.  
     Cheap , both the Chevy Bolt and the new Tesla model 2 are cheap and eligible for the $7500 IRS rebate. 
   The Chevy is ending production this year. And so far they've only made 20,000 

 but that's better than the Tesla Model 2 which won't be sold until summer of 2024. 
   Range on the new Model  2 is going to be slightly higher than the Chevy but it will charge much much faster.  
   Lately Elon Musk has been achieving his goals impressive as they may be. He's really doing something.  Saving 80 billion dollars for NASA with his reusable rockets.  Building a battery plant in Nevada,   helping Australia  and the UK  runnng their whole countries on renewables.