Bothersome tidbit I found at local Toyota dealer

Wally wrote:

stuart in mn wrote:

MA$$hole wrote: He may have been shocked because I'm sure his 99% of his customers come in and all they do is pick out what color Camry/Corolla they want.

I thought they were all some generic silver/grey color anyway. :)

You can also pick from beige or tan

The best laugh I ever had while car shopping was at a Honda dealer. I wanted to take test drive in the then new Fit. The young salesman didn't see me drive in and was apologising because the only one he had was red and had a manual transmission.

I guess he looked at this short, fat, grey haired old man and made some assumptions. He apologised again when I showed him my red, supercharged, 5 speed Focus.

i almost bought a brand new Z28 in the summer of '02, about a month before they were going to stop F body production. i spec'ed out a stripped down version on the Chevrolet website at home the night before, so i knew i could get a stripped down version for about $22k- LS1, 6 speed, am/fm radio, cloth interior, Hurst shifter, Borla exhaust, 17" wheels and upgraded brakes, unassuming gray paint, and no silly things like t tops. power windows and locks AC, and cruise control were sadly standard equipment on the V8 cars so i couldn't leave them off...

i went to the closest dealer and told him what i wanted to do. he said it was hard to custom order a car and that it would be hard to get parts for down the road, but they just happened to have a couple of loaded SS models (auto trans, leather, big stereo, white paint with orange stripes, etc) on the lot for only $38k.. i said i'd take one if they'd sell it to me for the price of the stripped down model i was thinking about custom ordering.

no dice.

after a little bit of arguing, i got him to get on the computer and see if i could custom order the car i wanted. turns out that not only could i order it and take delivery in about 6 weeks, but they had a factory to dealer rebate of $5k that dropped the price down to just over $17k and the sales manager said they'd cover the taxes and registration costs for some reason.. i took the printout home over the weekend to think if i actually wanted to do this- a brand new perfectly equipped '02 Z28 that looked like a base model with shiny wheels on it for $17k- but i decided not to do it after getting an insurance quote..

Maybe Toyota has tried selling 2WD pickups in the snowbelt and saw that only about 5% of pickup truck sales are 2WD in that area. Rather than having dealerships keep 2WD specific parts on hand and 2WD demo models that will be hard to sell and having to train technicians on both 4WD and 2WD models, they just made a blanket decision that it was not worth the added cost and hassle for the relatively few sales in that region, especially since they could probably upsell 75% of the 2WD sales to 4WD. (I don't know how valid the 5% number is, I just made that up to illustrate my idea. This is the only reason I could think of that Toyota wouldn't offer the vehicle in certain regions.)

It really sucks that you can't even order it though, but there must be a decent reason.

Bob

A few years ago I worked at a Toyota dealer in MA, and I was the guy who controlled the inventory, so I can comment on this.

A few points:

1. Yes, you can order stuff from Toyota, just like anyone else. If the car is a new model or super hot, then it gets hard, but for normal stuff, it isn't all that hard. You say what you want, and then the dealer submits it to their dealer rep, who gets it on the schedule, and usually you have it in about 3-4 months, more for a Japanese build car. Many dealers just refuse to do this as they want to sell what is on the lot TODAY, or they just don't know how.

2. Dealers don't order cars like off of a menu. Toyota decided what they were going to make for a certain region (which options and packages and drivetrains, etc), and it varied from region to region. The local offices allocate a certain number of each model to the dealers based on their sales and inventory levels. Example: Even though I knew there was no point in having all the Corolla LEs get the optional extra $100 for the stereo that included the tape deck, there was nothing I could do about it. We could modify the colors a bit and do some basic modification of the option packages (among the regularly available choices) if we did it within 48 hours of the allocation.

3. There is a reason that they don't stock many 2WD Tundras in MA. We used to get some of the base 2WD work trucks, and those sat and sat and sat. Nobody really wanted them. Same for most of the 2WD Tacomas. Nobody wanted them and we would sit on them for a very long time. I think only once or twice in the two years I did it did someone really have a hard on for a 2WD truck, and we would usually try to source one from another dealer or another region, or they would just buy a 4WD.

If you were able to find a new one somewhere, would the local Toyota place at least honor the warranty ?

Of course they would. They have to.

Example: My Father bought a 2WD Sequoia in Florida where he lives in the winter. It had a recall for something, and I had that done at the dealer I worked for in MA, it wasn't anything different than any other Toyota. Perhaps they would have to wait one extra day for the parts that were not in stock if it was 2WD/4WD specific, but that's it.

Gm does the same thing, try to find a 2WD Suburban in Maryland.

Chris, this is Massachusetts. We are all mindless lemmings that will buy/pay for anything we are told to buy/pay for. Try finding a family sedan with the biggest available engine and a manual transmission. Can't even get one in a Mazda 6 anymore.

mad_machine wrote: This is why BMW does not offer the "individual" packages here in the US

They sure used to, not sure about now. I've looked at several Individual E36 M3s and E39 M5s (I was in the market).

My buddy is on the "I want a 2wd truck" bandwagon. The way I see it is I want a vehicle that can get me through the worst that mother nature has to offer. Is true that you only "need" 4wd on road about 4-5 times a year...sure I'd believe that. But that day a storm sneaks up and dumps a foot of snow on the commute home and you're sitting in your 2wd vehicle while I drive past you on my way home...you'll be very jealous.

I drove a Miata on snows for a couple Winters. I got stuck once mostly due to ground clearance. The white knuckle driving took a few years off my life though (getting passed by a plow truck on the highway is SCARY in a Miata). I bought a cheap XJ and had a lot more fun. Changing to winter wheels/tires is child's play for me but 95% of the population needs to wait in line at NTB...PITA.

I'm also sure that the people driving in the flooding up here are glad they have 4wd. Decent tires and an LSD out back will get you though a lot, but you don't want to get stuck on a submerged obstacle when the rushing water is all around you.

BS on the foot of snow. A couple of years ago (during the snowpocolypse.. I was at work (12 miles away) in my BMW which was one summer tyres (worn too). I made it all the way home to get stuck 20 feet from my driveway.

Only hairy moment I had was trying to turn onto a street with a slight incline. Other than that.. it was a matter of regulating wheelspin to get me through. Yes, I could not accelerate that well in the snow, but towards the end, the splitter on the front of Ti was a snow plow

Yes, having the right equipment helps.. but in the end, it is all in the driver.

ReverendDexter wrote:

foxtrapper wrote: Only after waiting months, and then finally getting a call or letter from Toyota telling him that he will never get this combination because they will not ever make it or sell it to him did he relent and go with grey.

I'm surprised he still went with Toyota at that point. I would've walked.

Me too !

When I bought both my Liberty and my Fiesta, two different companies, I speced them out on their web site. Went to the dealer, made the deal and the vehicle was ordered. Got the Jeep in 4 weeks. The Fiesta took longer due to some shipping problems. Maybe it pays to buy from domestic companies. Even though the Fiesta is built in Mexico but so were the Escorts.

miatame wrote: My buddy is on the "I want a 2wd truck" bandwagon. The way I see it is I want a vehicle that can get me through the worst that mother nature has to offer. Is true that you only "need" 4wd on road about 4-5 times a year...sure I'd believe that. But that day a storm sneaks up and dumps a foot of snow on the commute home and you're sitting in your 2wd vehicle while I drive past you on my way home...you'll be very jealous. I drove a Miata on snows for a couple Winters. I got stuck once mostly due to ground clearance. The white knuckle driving took a few years off my life though (getting passed by a plow truck on the highway is SCARY in a Miata). I bought a cheap XJ and had a lot more fun. Changing to winter wheels/tires is child's play for me but 95% of the population needs to wait in line at NTB...PITA. I'm also sure that the people driving in the flooding up here are glad they have 4wd. Decent tires and an LSD out back will get you though a lot, but you don't want to get stuck on a submerged obstacle when the rushing water is all around you.

+1

I used to drive my lowered 944 turbo in the winter because it was all I had and I couldn't afford another vehicle at the time. I also had to drive MKII and IV Supras in the winter for the same reason. Now I have a 2wd truck, 4wd truck, 4wd blazer, 4wd Suburban, and 4wd Jeep. The 2wd truck is absolutely USELESS in the snow. It's a 95 Dodge Dually turbo diesel and I couldn't even make it out of my driveway.

As far as the others......man the first time I had 4wd in the winter I thought a miracle had just happened. I had been so proud of my winter driving skills in the sports cars, passing a flipped Jeep in a ditch one time while I was in a Supra, and many other similar instances, but let me tell you that same skill in the 2wd makes you superman in the 4wd. I was pulling people out of ditches, taking hilly backroads home that most other people couldn't (this was to avoid the gridlocked interstate and common highways since Nashville gets crazy when it snows), and generally was just much more relaxed. I CAN drive some crazy stuff in the snow like 2wd sports cars and have even been known to take a dual sport bike out in the past when I was real dumb, but these days, when the white stuff starts to come, I enjoy one of the 4x4 vehicles and the peace of mind and extra capability that comes with it.

mad_machine wrote: Yes, having the right equipment helps.. but in the end, it is all in the driver.

Not necessarily. In my 325i ZSP on the worn stock Contis, letting the clutch out at idle in any gear would just start the back wheel spinning if it didn't stall, even on snow rather than ice. No amount of driver skill was going to get that car going.

I hardly drive my "Daily driver" though as I have a work van that I can bring home. It is a 00 Dodge 3500 van with an open diff,and not a ton of weight in the rear. I get around in the worst of the snow at all times of the morning,and night when the plows aren't always out so I am convinced I don't need 4wd. I have been stuck once and that was when I got to a location that had some fairly deep un-plowed snow,and then 3 hours later when I left it was even more deep,and still un-plowed. I got it unstuck after a bit of digging,and modulating between reverse,and drive though. Truth be told I probably don't really need this truck,but I am convinced I don't need 4wd. I could just keep my 01 Dodge 2500 van as my daily driver,but I have tired of it,it is falling apart,and want a pickup again. I don't like the idea of a new car payment though,so I will probably not buy the truck.

I agree with Cotton, i drove many years in snow with 2wd, you can get around as long as its not too hilly.
I love driving in the snow with my AWD Audi! I also have a 4wd truck and wouldnt ever want a 2wd one, it would be embarrassing to not be able to pull your boat up the ramp. (something a lsd/locker doesnt help)

Duke wrote:

mad_machine wrote: Yes, having the right equipment helps.. but in the end, it is all in the driver.

Not necessarily. In my 325i ZSP on the worn stock Contis, letting the clutch out at idle in any gear would just start the back wheel spinning if it didn't stall, even on snow rather than ice. No amount of driver skill was going to get that car going.

I will admit my Ti has the winter package LSD

Heh..... Toyota ain't what she use to be... ain't what she use to be... ain't what she use to be......

my daily is a 1989 Corolla All-Trac 5 speed sedan. White with black bumpers. The only options on her are A/C and rear defrost. She has manual windows, manual mirrors, manual seats.

Needless to say when I shod her with studded Nokian Hakka 4 tires she can crawl up the side of a ice encased building

In reply to Mazdax605:

Yeah, we're in Louisiana looking for a 4x4 4Runner. It's almost impossible. I think they're playing these regional biases a little too hard, but what do I know?

I think we get enough heavy snow falls in the winter to make owning a 2wd truck not worth it. I use to have a 2wd F-150 and even with good tires it got stuck enough that it got annoying. Main problem was getting plowed in or getting in or out of the driveway after the plows go by. Ice was the biggest problem.

With my job I don't have the luxury of calling in during a storm. I've had 2 WRX's but even 17" of snow will stop them (if you are lazy and decided not to shovel the driveway getting high centered with all 4 wheels off the ground). Now I've ended up with a 4wd Frontier and enjoy the ground clearance, stability, and not getting stuck.

As for my MIata..

I am on call 24/7 365 no matter the weather Greg. I have got around the entire south-eastern corridor during all the worst weather around here in a 2wd Dodge van. I have a big snow blower,and use it to get out of my house no matter what the plows have done. I have a really long driveway and it takes me 2 hours plus to snow blow it but it beats depending on a plow driver that may or may not come as he pleases. I have owned 3 4wd vehicles in my life aside from my wife's old Forester,and I don't think I used the 4wd in them more than a dozen times. The plow drivers for the roads here in the commonwealth are really good in my opinion and most people don't need the 6k lb SUV with 4wd in my opinion,but I will never change their minds.

I have daily driven a Miata through Michigan winters with snow tires and basically no problem with 6" or less. Anything above that and it becomes a snow plow. Now I drive a lifted 4WD Jeep in the winter. It will go through anything. Oh and by the way I think 4WD is the most help on ice as it stops the back end from wanting to wiggle.

Sonic wrote: Of course they would. They have to. Example: My Father bought a 2WD Sequoia in Florida where he lives in the winter. It had a recall for something, and I had that done at the dealer I worked for in MA, it wasn't anything different than any other Toyota. Perhaps they would have to wait one extra day for the parts that were not in stock if it was 2WD/4WD specific, but that's it.

sorry ... the sarcasm didn't come through

mad_machine wrote: BS on the foot of snow. A couple of years ago (during the snowpocolypse.. I was at work (12 miles away) in my BMW which was one summer tyres (worn too). I made it all the way home to get stuck 20 feet from my driveway. Only hairy moment I had was trying to turn onto a street with a slight incline. Other than that.. it was a matter of regulating wheelspin to get me through. Yes, I could not accelerate that well in the snow, but towards the end, the splitter on the front of Ti was a snow plow Yes, having the right equipment helps.. but in the end, it is all in the driver.

on flat ground that's not a problem... here in the mountains it's a different story... we don't get much snow ( the last 2 yrs not withstanding ) but many hills / steep / very steep grades ... no weight in the back end of a 2 WD PU ... no matter how well you drive / think you drive you ain't going anywhere

my driveway is a 18 % grade ( for the arithmetic challenged that's a 36° angle) with (real) snow tires my Honda's have made it up in the normal 3 - 6" snows we get here.. but the last two yrs have had multiple 8 - 15" snows... thank heavens for my AWD Suby ... even with open dif nothing has slowed it down