If you autocross, check after every run, no exceptions.
Rallycrossing a 2.5RS, we would check between every run and sometimes it would be a half quart low. "Sometimes" being often enough that we would go through 2.5 quarts after 24 total runs. Ingesting oil under high G loads is another one of those Subaru things that you either learn to live with and account for with your service regimen, or ignore, get burned, and make memes about later.
Every run is a bit overkill on a new engine. But start a half quart over full and check it every event at least. Also ditch the stock garbage 0w20 for an oil that's actually oil and change it every 5-6k miles. That one applies to any use case.
Mine's just over 6000 miles so an oil change, after checking the current level, is on my to do list this week.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:If you autocross, check after every run, no exceptions.
Rallycrossing a 2.5RS, we would check between every run and sometimes it would be a half quart low. "Sometimes" being often enough that we would go through 2.5 quarts after 24 total runs. Ingesting oil under high G loads is another one of those Subaru things that you either learn to live with and account for with your service regimen, or ignore, get burned, and make memes about later.
I would get 300 miles of driving and 10 rallycross runs on about a half quart in my 200k mile 2.5 RS. It's definitely something to watch, but each Subie engine seems to be a little different. Flat engines definitely have their own challenges.
WonkoTheSane said:BenB said:In reply to WonkoTheSane :
Is this related to the RTV chunks in the oil screen? Has anyone been able to determine how widespread that issue really is/was? I'd love to see some actual data.
All I have is anacdata, but I can tell you that I've seen two of these (2022/23) lose engines on the track in the past 3 months. Latest was last Sunday at palmer, the car was completely stock and had less than 18k on it. Subaru is denying the warranty for the poor guy, it was his third track day with the car, just got promoted to solo novice. Both of those are suspected (but not proven!) RTV issues, as both let go at high rpm, with main bearings gone.
But, I've seen some of the FAs lose compression, start ingesting oil for the reasons Pete mentioned. Often this is quickly followed by main bearings destruction. I've helped my track friends replace 3 of em now with the older engines (circa 2014-2016), I was hoping that the newer series resolved these issues, but Subaru is giving themselves a black eye with the oil control rings and RTV issues.
I am pretty sure that car was a GR86 not a BRZ. Subaru has not had the negative press that Toyota has.
My local Subaru dealership has been great. They covered resealing the oil pan under warranty on my old 2022 after we found a bit of RTV on the pickup.
In reply to pimpm3 (Forum Supporter) :
Could be. Is there a difference between the two except for the badge? I've been calling them frisbees since the early teens :)
I know that Toyota gives a NASA membership and free track day with the purchase of one, which makes it extra crappy the way they're handling it. I would expect them to handle it like Mazda did with the ND1 transmission issues. As far as I know, 100% of street and track use were either covered by the warranty or reimbursed if the customer paid out of pocket.
They are mechanically pretty much the same. Both are made by subaru. There are some differences in spring rate, sway bar mounting and the BRZ has aluminum knuckles vs steel in the Toyota.
The biggest difference is how the manufacturers are handling warranty issues. It seems like all the problems with warranty claims are coming from the Toyota side of the house.
The free track day with purchase and then voiding warranty if you have a failure is certainly very crappy. Not to mention in foreign markets all of the GR cars are specifically covered on track, like chevy does with the 1LE camaro's.
Toyota is covering the engines under warranty. It's the dealers that have been a problem.
So any updates from the GRM owners? My local dealership has one of these inbound and I am curious.
I don't drive mine much with working from home. Bricktown in OKC (where there are many concert/comedian venues), has become much rougher the last few years, so a lowered bright red sports on nice wheels draws attention from people I don't want attention from, so we use the fiance's '18 Mazda 3 for that, grocery runs, etc.
My '23 I got last year in Sept has almost 2600 miles on it and just had the 2nd oil change.
It's currently at the detailer getting it's 1-year tune up on the ceramic coating, it's a special wash from CarPro to remove any contaminats and get it ready for another coat of their sealant they use on top of the ceramic coat. And getting the following things installed, the GR86 premium ducktail spoiler (just an add one that makes it little larger, but same basic overall shape), the Carbon Fiber APR Vortex Generator, and Carbon Fiber APR Fender Vent covers.
I also had the OEM Audio+ setup installed at the beginning of the month, expensive, but it sounds great and was worth it since it's PnP into all the factory wiring harness outside the power/ground cables and the the cable to sub.
I'll probably wait until next year to add the rest of the CF APR aero parts. I'd also like to do the JDM brake ducts that have LED running lights in them.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:If you autocross, check after every run, no exceptions.
Rallycrossing a 2.5RS, we would check between every run and sometimes it would be a half quart low. "Sometimes" being often enough that we would go through 2.5 quarts after 24 total runs. Ingesting oil under high G loads is another one of those Subaru things that you either learn to live with and account for with your service regimen, or ignore, get burned, and make memes about later.
I've never had any oil consumption with the FA20/4UGSE and it seems that the FA24 in the newer models is similar from what I've heard - both will only start to ingest oil with an 0.5qt+ overfill in stock condition, with a baffle they can probably take more.
Oil supply/starvation and temperature are what you need to keep a close eye on with these engines. Mine's been fine so far with an aftermarket pickup + baffle + cooler + viscosity bump + 0.25~0.5qt overfill. The FA24 has a completely different oil pickup that doesn't have the FA20 pickup's restriction issues, other than those that might be caused by excess RTV in the pan. It looks like the aftermarket is still working on an effective baffle for the FA24 though.
Over 9,000 miles in the last 4 months. (Colorado, Connecticut, Key West, The Smokies, etc.) Loving it.
In reply to z31maniac :
Thanks for the update. I'm sad to hear about bricktown. We used to go to OKC a few times a year to do stuff there and then get dinner at Cattleman's. We don't live in DFW anymore so that's not really feasible from here.
In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
Yeah there was actually a shooting in front the comedy club a few years ago. The surveillance footage made it look like people that weren't even at the club for a show.
Cattleman's is still fantastic though!
Still loving mine. I've barely put 2000 miles on it, though. Based on comments on the GR86 forum, I replaced the clutch pedal spring with one from MTEC. It took about fifteen minutes and greatly improved the clutch feel. It's still not as good as the clutches on other cars I've owned, but its okay. The only other mod I've done is to add a black trim piece ("trunk aero stabilizer") that blends the rear window with the trunk lid. I used an eBay imitation that's half the price of the GR badged version. This is probably my favorite of the cars I've owned over the last 45 years.
There is a 2022 GR86 locally too I may go look at. I know the market for manual trans imports here is small so it should still be around this weekend.
BenB said:Still loving mine. I've barely put 2000 miles on it, though. Based on comments on the GR86 forum, I replaced the clutch pedal spring with one from MTEC. It took about fifteen minutes and greatly improved the clutch feel. It's still not as good as the clutches on other cars I've owned, but its okay. The only other mod I've done is to add a black trim piece ("trunk aero stabilizer") that blends the rear window with the trunk lid. I used an eBay imitation that's half the price of the GR badged version. This is probably my favorite of the cars I've owned over the last 45 years.
This is one complaint I've never understood on these cars, 1st and 2nd gen. I purchased a new 2015 BRZ back at the end of 2014 and I've my 2nd gen for just over a year.
I've never felt it was a problem.
This is the 2022 near me. It has 18k miles and was in a no damage accident of some sort.
The new Subaru will likely be a better value though even though it is black... waiting on arrival to test drive it.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:I'm curious what kind of real world oil economy these get.
Fixed this for you.
z31maniac said:BenB said:Still loving mine. I've barely put 2000 miles on it, though. Based on comments on the GR86 forum, I replaced the clutch pedal spring with one from MTEC. It took about fifteen minutes and greatly improved the clutch feel. It's still not as good as the clutches on other cars I've owned, but its okay. The only other mod I've done is to add a black trim piece ("trunk aero stabilizer") that blends the rear window with the trunk lid. I used an eBay imitation that's half the price of the GR badged version. This is probably my favorite of the cars I've owned over the last 45 years.
This is one complaint I've never understood on these cars, 1st and 2nd gen. I purchased a new 2015 BRZ back at the end of 2014 and I've my 2nd gen for just over a year.
I've never felt it was a problem.
For me it's more of a "where the hell is the engagement point?" My MSM's clutch is a little heavier than the BRZ's with the stock spring, but you can feel exactly where the clutch starts to take up as you let the pedal out. To me, the BRZ's is numb by comparison. I'm learning where it takes up more by muscle memory than by feel, if that makes sense.
In reply to BenB :
The BRZ clutch is newer than the MSM's so the release mechanism has more leverage over the diaphragm spring. As the disc wears and the angle of the diaphragm "fingers" changes, it will feel more like the MSM's clutch does now.
When I changed the clutch on my Scion tC two years ago, I replaced it with the exact same clutch. The first few times I pushed the pedal, I thought I would send it right through the firewall. It was harder to feel the engagement point, since the ovearall effort was lower. The effort will increase over time.
Jerry From LA said:AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:I'm curious what kind of real world oil economy these get.
Fixed this for you.
My first gen never burned oil from 4 miles to 35k when I traded it in. But I also believe fun cars like that, once up to temp, need to be taken to redline a few times every time you drive it. The Italian tune up if you will.
As far as the clutch thing, I think like BenB mentioned, maybe it's just always been muscle memory for me. My leg is about here, with these revs and the car is moving forward now.
Yeah oil burning is definitely not a typical FA20/FA24 problem. Oil levels have been as reliable as the tides in a fish tank on my FA20.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:This is the 2022 near me. It has 18k miles and was in a no damage accident of some sort.
The new Subaru will likely be a better value though even though it is black... waiting on arrival to test drive it.
Crap... if I ever do a new(ish-er) car, THAT one is what I want.
I had an old 240-Z painted (near) that color, and I love it. I sometime ponder selling the Miata (new-Mama says "no!" to selling the Miata - ex-Mama was another story...), the E36, and the E21 and doing just one car, but it would have to be that car in that color.
E36 I could sell.
I would maaaaaybe be ok selling the Miata for that.
But the damnable E21 is pure mechanical driving, the feel is unparalleled, I've got blood(ied knuckles aplenty), sweat, tears invested in it, and it's some how possessed my soul like a demon that only Christ could cast out. I don't know if only just now finally getting it to a state of prep that I've always wanted it to be in, and it drives real well is part of what makes the attraction so strong.
Hmmm....
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