Brake Issue - 1959 Edsel

I'm helping a friend get his '59 Edsel on the road, and we are having a problem with the brakes (he bought it that way).

Saturday we replaced the master. Bench bled just fine. When I went to start the regular bleeding process, I got nothing out of the passenger rear bleed screw - even when completely removed. Same with the bleed screws on both front wheels. I didn't bother with the drivers rear, as it's on the same circuit as the passenger.

I then cracked the connection between the hard line and the flex line on the drivers front and got fluid when the brakes were pressed. Went to go do the same on the passenger side just to discover that the fitting was stripped by the previous owner.

So I don't know a ton about brakes - especially old, single circuit 4 wheel drum brakes. Part of me thinks wheel cylinders next, but how could all four (presumably) be bad?

The wheel cylinders can get gummed up so bad that nothing will come out the bleeder screws. It's probably a good idea to replace them all anyway - you can get rebuild kits for less money, but if they're that clogged it's likely they're corroded beyond repair. Sounds like the flex lines need to be replaced as well.

even if the cylinders were bad you should have fluid at them when you bleed. 4 possibilities:

The cylinders are ALL leaking so bad that the fluid is going into the drum not out the bleeder. Unlikely and you'd eventually see fluid coming out the bottom of the drum. Crack the lines at the bleeders to see if fluid is even making it back to them.

The soft lines have all deteriorated to a point where they are internally clogged. I have never seen them so clogged that fluid wouldnt push through, usually the fluid goes through but wont return causing locked brakes.

Clog or leak somewhere else in the lines.

Master isn't pushing fluid, did you bench bleed it?

Brake problems with a 56 year old Edsel?

Imagine that.

I agree with Stewie.

JThw8 wrote: even if the cylinders were bad you should have fluid at them when you bleed. 4 possibilities: The cylinders are ALL leaking so bad that the fluid is going into the drum not out the bleeder. Unlikely and you'd eventually see fluid coming out the bottom of the drum. Crack the lines at the bleeders to see if fluid is even making it back to them. The soft lines have all deteriorated to a point where they are internally clogged. I have never seen them so clogged that fluid wouldnt push through, usually the fluid goes through but wont return causing locked brakes. Clog or leak somewhere else in the lines. Master isn't pushing fluid, did you bench bleed it?

I did, for a moment, get fluid out of the passenger rear bleeder screw, but then nothing. Both the fronts were bone dry. Nothing leaking out the bottom of the drums either.

Pedel pressure is nice and firm and doesn't release when you crack any bleeder anymore.

We did bench bleed, and that seemed to go fine, but I'll admit it was my first time bench bleeding a master.

The set is Master > line > distribution block > 3 lines (one to each front, one headed to the rear).

I popped one of the front lines off the distribution block and had fluid shooting out with pedal pressure, as expected.

He's order up 4 new wheel cylinders, so we'll see how it goes.

Gimp wrote:

JThw8 wrote: even if the cylinders were bad you should have fluid at them when you bleed. 4 possibilities: The cylinders are ALL leaking so bad that the fluid is going into the drum not out the bleeder. Unlikely and you'd eventually see fluid coming out the bottom of the drum. Crack the lines at the bleeders to see if fluid is even making it back to them. The soft lines have all deteriorated to a point where they are internally clogged. I have never seen them so clogged that fluid wouldnt push through, usually the fluid goes through but wont return causing locked brakes. Clog or leak somewhere else in the lines. Master isn't pushing fluid, did you bench bleed it?

I did, for a moment, get fluid out of the passenger rear bleeder screw, but then nothing. Both the fronts were bone dry. Nothing leaking out the bottom of the drums either. Pedel pressure is nice and firm and doesn't release when you crack any bleeder anymore. We did bench bleed, and that seemed to go fine, but I'll admit it was my first time bench bleeding a master. The set is Master > line > distribution block > 3 lines (one to each front, one headed to the rear). I popped one of the front lines off the distribution block and had fluid shooting out with pedal pressure, as expected. He's order up 4 new wheel cylinders, so we'll see how it goes.

Sounds like you are on the right path. Unless he knows they've been done recently I'd order up the soft lines too and just get it all done at once.

How long has it been sitting?

I have dealt with cars in which every inch of the brake system was full of a thick paste that was left when brake fluid absorbed water, then dried out. I am talking cars that have sat for 20+ years.

Take off the distribution block and inspect it. I am betting there will be a greenish paste in there. Corrosion from the brass and whatever else. If the hard lines are full of it too you are kinda screwed.

Also if they are over 20 years old, you will need new soft lines too. I guarantee those will fail right away

If it were me. I'd start with new lines hard and flexible and wheel cylinders as you've done the master all ready. This way you know your not going to die 4 miles down the road when you jump on the brakes and pop an old rusty line.
If the old master was bad there's no telling what kinda junk is in the lines or if some dumb A poured in something other then brake fluid...

Car has been sitting for a long, long time.

I'm going to recommend all the lines to him, but he's on a $0 budget, so just getting this far has been a stretch. Glad to hear I might be on the right path.

Thanks again!

When I rebuilt the wheel cylinders on my '61 Olds the brake fluid inside had turned to crystals. It was crazy looking. I bet something similar happened to the Edsel.

Gimp wrote: I'm going to recommend all the lines to him, but he's on a $0 budget...

Is it even possible to fix a '59 Edsel on a $0 budget?

jstein77 wrote:

Gimp wrote: I'm going to recommend all the lines to him, but he's on a $0 budget...

Is it even possible to fix a '59 Edsel on a $0 budget?

Well, slightly more than $0, but not by much.

As mentioned, start with new wheel cylinders and hoses. Good excuse to repack the wheel bearings too. Remember these are almost certainly asbestos containing brakes, so keep everything wetted down. Replace any hardlines that have more than light surface rust, or just do them as preventative maintenance (they can rust inside too). Also make absolutely sure the parking brake setup is in good shape if you are staying single circuit.

Definitely do the hoses - I'm still working on my BMW K1100LT's brakes. That bike sat for probably about 10 years with the same brake fluid in it and right now it looks like the fluid has done a number on several of the hoses and possibly seals as well.

pull the hoses and undo the lines from the master and see if you can blow through them with compressed air.

Remove the bleeder screw and take a small pick or drillbit and remove the dirt plug from the hole in the cylinder at the base of the bleeder screw.

I hope that's clear.

Then buy new cylinders and flex hoses.