BRZ at the dealer down the road

Am I the only one appalled that someone traded in a Lotus for an AUTOMATIC?

Javelin wrote: You know, I hear this all the time, and it just doesn't make sense to me at all. You HAVE to use your right leg/foot constantly when you drive, is it *really* that much more effort to use the left foot as well? Modern manual trans cars use hydraulic clutch actuation, so it's not like a 1950's truck where it's just you holding the pressure plate in, and you let off the pedal (neutral) when sitting still anyway. I've driven some of the worst commutes with a stick, and it's never even crossed my mind that it would be so much easier with half the feet.

You can drive my commute for a year, and you'll change your mind. I'm a big proponent of manual transmissions, but stop and go up and down hills in a manual is brutal.

Javelin wrote:

Winston wrote: It's too bad that they couldn't get their act together on the twin-clutch. With the traffic I face every day, I just can't bring myself to daily drive a manual anymore.

You know, I hear this all the time, and it just doesn't make sense to me at all. You HAVE to use your right leg/foot constantly when you drive, is it *really* that much more effort to use the left foot as well? Modern manual trans cars use hydraulic clutch actuation, so it's not like a 1950's truck where it's just you holding the pressure plate in, and you let off the pedal (neutral) when sitting still anyway. I've driven some of the worst commutes with a stick, and it's never even crossed my mind that it would be so much easier with half the feet.

This. I do the Washington DC beltway in lousy stop and go every day. And every day for the last 12 years I've done it with a manual. First my '92 Accord, then my Maxima, and the last 4 in the WRX. The Accord would tire out my left leg, and the Maxima a bit too. The WRX even in gridlock my left leg isn't really all that tired, other than from just sitting in the car for a long time. Subaru clutches are not terribly heavy.

In reply to dj06482:

I did the I-5 through Seattle for 2 years man. It's got hills, one of the top 5 worst commutes, and rain.

Seriously man, it's one more foot. Do you loathe walking and hop around everywhere on one foot?!?

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Why isn't this thread titled "Used Lotus at the dealer down the road"?

The Lotus was already gone.

friedgreencorrado wrote:

jv8 wrote: You guys crack me up with the new vs used comparisons. This board's favorite answer is the Miata. All those bargain Miata projects wouldn't exist if people hadn't been buying them new for about $25K in today's dollars. I don't see threads on here slamming new Miata purchasers because you can get a used C5/911/S2K/whatever for the same money.

I think I agree. Folks should remember that when the Miata was new, you didn't see a lot of people talking about how you could buy a used Little British Car for much less. It really was brilliant timing on Mazda's part.

Been saying this for awhile now, if no one bought them new, there wouldn't be any used ones around.

And lawlz at the self-righteousness about driving a manual in traffic. Geez.

z31maniac wrote: And lawlz at the self-righteousness about driving a manual in traffic. Geez.

It's not self-righteousness, it's a genuine question. I mean is it really, seriously, that much work to use both legs? I mean, I can see it if your stick car has a manual clutch engagement, or rods, or something, but a hydraulic engagement is no worse than holding your right foot down on a power brake pedal. I really, truly, do not understand the sentiment against it.

In a stick car, on a level surface, the car will remain stationary with BOTH FEET off of the pedals. This is a frequent scenario in stop'n'go traffic. However, in the automatic car, you have to be holding the brake down all the damn time to keep your car from creeping into the guy in front of you. It is obvious that the manual car wins at stop'n'go traffic.

I hate driving in stop-and-go traffic, and a stick just makes it worse.

Why? Because people around here drive like idiots, and sitting for 40 minutes moving 10 feet at a time gets frustrating and anything that makes it easier (including an automatic transmission) is great. Plus, engaging the clutch a few hundred extra times each day can't help wear.

That said, I'll keep the stick and deal with the frustration, but I don't pretend that it's not aggravating. When I have to drive that route, I leave the house early and stay at work late to try and dodge the worst traffic.

Brett_Murphy wrote: I hate driving in stop-and-go traffic, and a stick just makes it worse. Why? Because people around here drive like idiots, and sitting for 40 minutes moving 10 feet at a time gets *frustrating* and anything that makes it easier (including an automatic transmission) is great. Plus, engaging the clutch a few hundred extra times each day can't help wear. That said, I'll keep the stick and deal with the frustration, but I don't pretend that it's not aggravating. When I have to drive that route, I leave the house early and stay at work late to try and dodge the worst traffic.

+eleventy.

Maybe i'm getting old, but i don't think the MX6 will stick around long after the Challenge. I want another Cherokee to daily drive pretty badly for this very reason.

CPannell wrote:

Joe Gearin wrote: An RX-8 is a great car, but it isn't anywhere near as practical as the 86 twins. Have kids in babyseats?---- RX-8 Want to fit a spare set of wheels and tires for track use---- RX-8 Want to run to Home Depot to get home supplies?----RX-8, unless you have plywood Want the car to get out of it's own way without hitting 7K RPM?----- 86 twins I have nothing but love for the RX-8, but a practical car it ain't. The BRZ / FR-S twins are extremely usable, everyday machines. The RX-8 is too

FTFY

I do love the RX-8.......I just don't love them drinking premium fuel at the 15mpg I'd get if I owned one. (yes I know they are capable of 20mph--driving downhill, with Mother Teresa at the wheel----but with me driving---- 15mpg)

Javelin wrote:

z31maniac wrote: And lawlz at the self-righteousness about driving a manual in traffic. Geez.

It's not self-righteousness, it's a genuine question. I mean is it really, seriously, that much work to use both legs? I mean, I can see it if your stick car has a manual clutch engagement, or rods, or something, but a hydraulic engagement is no worse than holding your right foot down on a power brake pedal. I really, truly, do not understand the sentiment against it.

I agree. I never really notice any extra work in driving a manual car thru traffic but I have never owned an automatic either and I have only actually ever driven 2 automatics for more then down the driveway in my life.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I am trying to love these new machines because I'd like to support someone trying to do something awesome... but they are just so... so... uninspired to look at*.

Have you seen one in person? Waayyyy better looking than in photos. I did not expect to like the look but once I saw one in person it hung and looks great, in my opinion.

BRZ ran at Ft Wayne autocross yesterday, it looked tidy on track and pretty in person.

I drive 70,000 miles a year for work, my one demand from the dealer was "Find me a manual"

Javelin wrote: In reply to dj06482: I did the I-5 through Seattle for 2 years man. It's got hills, one of the top 5 worst commutes, and rain. Seriously man, it's one more foot. Do you loathe walking and hop around everywhere on one foot?!?

For my commute and the specific time, I'd be riding the clutch about the entire 45 minute stretch of road (only 12 miles distance-wise). As it is with one (brake) pedal, it's not uncommon to not even get my foot completely off the brake before we're stopping again. Vin Diesel lives his life a quarter mile at a time, this commute is about driving 5 ft at a time. Probably some of that is due to the fact that about 95% of those doing the commute are driving automatics and look ahead exactly 3 ft to the bumper of the car in front of them.

The stretch of road I'm talking about is the Merritt Parkway in CT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merritt_Parkway), from exit 42 to exit 36. The equivalent commute is on I-95, which is rated at #7 on the worst commute list - below the commute you mentioned. About 50% of the time I've done the commute in a manual, so it's not for a lack of trying that I've given up on them