The engines are the cheap part. The money comes if you need to use a different water pump, intake, oil pan, injectors, when you buy a trans, computer, etc...
The engines are the cheap part. The money comes if you need to use a different water pump, intake, oil pan, injectors, when you buy a trans, computer, etc...
MrJoshua wrote: The engines are the cheap part. The money comes if you need to use a different water pump, intake, oil pan, injectors, when you buy a trans, computer, etc...
Agreed. Buying your complete engine based on packaging makes sense since they can all be upgraded for good power. If its just a short-block however, go for lowest price or highest stock power level since you'll be buying all that stuff anyway.
MrJoshua wrote: In reply to patgizz: $285 for a 50k mile 2005 4.8 at my local LKQ. The price if I just drove in would have been north of $600 but the car-part.com prices are much lower.
mine was complete as can be. accessories, manifolds, maf, harness, pcm, and shipping from texas to ohio. i did get $200 back selling the harness. or buy without all that and buy all the extras separately. i've bought sub $400 lkq motors, i know how they come.
and to other question, yes i purchased the car as a lightly hit roller with no engine/trans. i found a reasonable seller who knew a car is only worth the sum of the parts if you're parting it out and made me a nice deal. he actually tried to get me to take the lt1/trans but i was out of room
In reply to patgizz:
Yep, I hope everyone reading this thread reads all the posts. There are several ways to tackle this. What is best in one situation isn't necessarily best in another. For me, none of the truck stuff would work so getting it all with the motor wasn't worthwhile. I was also planning a challenge build so buying the inconvenience of buying all the parts piecemeal is worth the budget savings.
In reply to racinginc215:
That was a pretty good buy! That's the 400hp motor right?
racinginc215 wrote: I'm on the hunt for an LSx too. what I'm finding is buy a wreck optioned the way you want and sell off what you don't use. As of 1pm today I'm the proud owner of a 2005 GTO LS2 6 speed. hit hard in the rear end. So I'm figuring I can sell everything from the doors forward and the interior is perfect. hopefully the rear will be good. I paid 2800.00 for it plus fee's hoping I can get back at least 1800.
Jesus. I don't think it's possible to find deals like that around here. How did you land that?
Ranger50 wrote: Besides a base truck 5.3 can put out well over 400hp with a fairly simple cam and spring swap, they already put out 280-290hp in stock form.
I agree that a 5.3 is a great budget swap; I helped a friend put one in his 47 International KB1. However, a cam and springs picking up over 100 hp seems optimistic to me. What cam are we talking about? Do you have a link to a build or dyno sheet to back up that number? If it can be done, I'd genuinely like to know how.
Will wrote:Ranger50 wrote: Besides a base truck 5.3 can put out well over 400hp with a fairly simple cam and spring swap, they already put out 280-290hp in stock form.I agree that a 5.3 is a great budget swap; I helped a friend put one in his 47 International KB1. However, a cam and springs picking up over 100 hp seems optimistic to me. What cam are we talking about? Do you have a link to a build or dyno sheet to back up that number? If it can be done, I'd genuinely like to know how.
Hot rod did an article on this it is dyno proven cam headers and a carb = 100 HP
I don't understand why carbs make more power on the domestic small blocks. EFI is superior in every measurable way that I can think of. What's going on here?
Slightly unrelated: I am thoroughly annoyed at how most people on corral.net say you 'dont need a tune' if you only have certain mods. These mods include light cams, intake/header/exhaust and swapped heads. In my mind, anything that hasn't gotten a dyno tune needs a tune.
Taiden wrote: I don't understand why carbs make more power on the domestic small blocks. EFI is superior in every measurable way that I can think of. What's going on here?
Nothing, most of the time carbs beat FI by a tiny bit on overall power, but often lack a bit on the overall range. Properly tuned, they are darn near equals in terms of poer, but obviously each has its more subjective merits. Most of the Hot Rod /Car Craft guys use the carb because that's what most of the muscle car swappers are bound to do, they don't go back to back carbs/FI often.
In reply to Taiden:
This argument went through the V8rx7 board years ago when one of the guys was building an all out drag car. Two things made sense to me in favor of the carbs.
1) The intake: There have typically been more performance oriented carb intakes than fuel injection intakes. Hi rise, straight runners, etc... When a high performance fuel injection intake is made, it usually still sacrifices some performance for maintaining the ability to fit in a stock location.
2) Fuel flow/lack of restriction. Most of the carb downfalls go away at full throttle and decent rpm: A carb at wide open throttle mixes fuel very well, has the ability to deliver LOTS of fuel, and causes very little flow restriction.
So basically you can get a more performance oriented setup for less money that will perform just as well in drag race or dyno situations.
Lots of the super high power fuel injection builds use carb style intakes with a fuel injection throttle body on top or modified to hold injectors.
Will wrote:Ranger50 wrote: Besides a base truck 5.3 can put out well over 400hp with a fairly simple cam and spring swap, they already put out 280-290hp in stock form.I agree that a 5.3 is a great budget swap; I helped a friend put one in his 47 International KB1. However, a cam and springs picking up over 100 hp seems optimistic to me. What cam are we talking about? Do you have a link to a build or dyno sheet to back up that number? If it can be done, I'd genuinely like to know how.
Google lists several builds on LS1Tech, performancetrucks.net, along with the waste of paper mags, Hot Rod and Car Craft. All the builds seem to have similar parts: tune, cam, springs, headers. Most of the cams listed in the builds are centered around the TR220. I personally think that cam is a touch small to get 400hp, but I don't have access to a.) the dyno and b.) a suitable 5.3 to test. My wife would probably kill me if I tore the 5.3 in her Avalanche down just to test it out.
But the biggest gain is the cam. The stock 5.3 cam is a waste of metal. Most sources list the cam at 190/191@.050 duration and .466/.454 lift. In spite of the no power cam, it makes 280hp stock.......
Taiden wrote: I don't understand why carbs make more power on the domestic small blocks. EFI is superior in every measurable way that I can think of. What's going on here? Slightly unrelated: I am thoroughly annoyed at how most people on corral.net say you 'dont need a tune' if you only have certain mods. These mods include light cams, intake/header/exhaust and swapped heads. In my mind, anything that hasn't gotten a dyno tune needs a tune.
It isn't so much more power, if it's a mag article, it is repeatabililty and simplicity. On a engine dyno, you can swap jets, squirters, and power valves faster then you can modify and upload different fuel and spark maps.
Ugh, the corral...blind mice leading blind cats..... But in their defense, the Ford EEC, bone stock, tolerates a TON of mods on the stock maps before driveability is really adversely effected. You aren't going to see magical 20hp gains over what the car makes on the stock tune vs a tune in the EEC. Now, the GM computer is the exact opposite.
I once had a Ford making over 50% more power than stock on a stock EEC, and that was a boosted situation. They are definitely widely adaptable. That being said, I know there was power left on the table by not tuning it (TwEECer) or swapping (MS, etc).
Carb or EFI it should not matter (that much) on total HP at the end of the day. Proper tuning is the key. Many tests are done with a carb as it is just simpler. The same overall gains / results should be repeatable with EFI.
Ranger50 wrote:Will wrote:Google lists several builds on LS1Tech, performancetrucks.net, along with the waste of paper mags, Hot Rod and Car Craft. All the builds seem to have similar parts: tune, cam, springs, headers. Most of the cams listed in the builds are centered around the TR220. I personally think that cam is a touch small to get 400hp, but I don't have access to a.) the dyno and b.) a suitable 5.3 to test. My wife would probably kill me if I tore the 5.3 in her Avalanche down just to test it out. But the biggest gain is the cam. The stock 5.3 cam is a waste of metal. Most sources list the cam at 190/191@.050 duration and .466/.454 lift. In spite of the no power cam, it makes 280hp stock.......Ranger50 wrote: Besides a base truck 5.3 can put out well over 400hp with a fairly simple cam and spring swap, they already put out 280-290hp in stock form.I agree that a 5.3 is a great budget swap; I helped a friend put one in his 47 International KB1. However, a cam and springs picking up over 100 hp seems optimistic to me. What cam are we talking about? Do you have a link to a build or dyno sheet to back up that number? If it can be done, I'd genuinely like to know how.
285-315 depending on year. LR4's made 275-295 depending on year, but about 30ftlbs less torque than the 5.3.
That 300hp LR4 spins up to 7k..... Mmmmmmmm......
That engine is also saddled with an automatic trans, put that on a manual trans and you're looking at 300+ whp, 7k rpms and lots of grins.
This is same build I'm using for my Volvo 780 
Guys running this in their Silverado still knock down good mileage and say it's enough power to give you the giggles. . .
Backed up by a manual and ~1500-2000lbs less should be an absolute blast!!
Strike_Zero, you're going for the LR4?
Methinks an L33 + T5 + ls1 intake + mild cam + megasquirt would be a good budget setup that would be pretty lightweight.
My hunch is that the T5 would hold up just fine in a car that weighs 2450 stock (not considering the swap).
For my Volvo . . . yes sir.
I have a line on a complete LR4 (all accessories, wiring, ECU, two sets of exhaust manifolds, etc) for $500 . . . just waiting on a callback from the seller.
I have GM specific T-5 WC from a 89 FBody and big block bellhousing in the garage.
I just need to get the swap kit from Mike at JTR and the odds and ends . . .
Where were you able to find the motor? I'm trying to add to my arsenal of motor finding tactics.
Little off topic here...
Can I get similar cam, spring, & tune gains from a stock LS1? My 98 camaro is quick, but more power is better right? What specific cams?
I feel like I've looked on LS1Tech but most of those builds are high dollar and not budget friendly.
In reply to Taiden:
I've found all my car related goodies on CL. I've set up RSS feeds in Google Reader . . . .
In reply to Nitroracer:
I can't remember what stock cam in the LS1 is, but I believe if you search the LS1Tech forum for 220 or 224 (Thunder Racing and Texas Speed) you should find some decent information . . . I think there is a cam only thread there too . . .
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