Budget Supercar Comparo

HiTempguy wrote:

Otto Maddox wrote: Haven't all Esprits and Panteras caught fire by now?

Somebody was out driving their mint, no rust Espirt V8 TT (a late model one) and it was -10*C out with snow on the ground. It can't be that bad if he's that brave

When Esprits rust, you can't see it unless you get under the car. The later cars don't have much in the way a rust a problem, but the are companies making replacement chassis for most older Lotus products.

The biggest let down of the V8 cars in mind is that the damn flimsy Renault UN1 limits how far you can with the engine.

MG Bryan wrote: The biggest let down of the V8 cars in mind is that the damn flimsy Renault UN1 limits how far you can with the engine.

That's what bit Tiff Needel from Fifth Gear when they tried to break the 200mph mark in an Esprit. Their boosted engine broke the gearbox.

Argo1 wrote:

Otto Maddox wrote: 850s are horrible to maintain. They are damn near free because of this. Even for free, I don't want one.

I'm curious. What is the maintenance issue? From personal experience? I've got 180k on my BMW 5 series and my mechanic says the BMW V12s are bullit proof if you don't overheat them. I would suspect the required maintenance would be less than the Ferrari, Maserati, etc. It's an affordable V12.

From a discussion with a friend, who admittedly doesn't do his own labor and uses the best parts -

Catalytic converters - Only $2,020 per side (2 required) plus $300 labor.

If the crankshaft sensor is bad on one bank, which is common enough, that requires a new sensor and a new harness for that sensor is required by BMW plus labor to wire it into the main harness and we come up with a grand total of........$3,800.

Now if we should need a head gasket on one side only that would be 15 hours labor plus $3890 in parts (refurbish one cylinder head), so that's $6,424.

Dude seriously needs a new mechanic...

Otto Maddox wrote:

Argo1 wrote:

Otto Maddox wrote: 850s are horrible to maintain. They are damn near free because of this. Even for free, I don't want one.

I'm curious. What is the maintenance issue? From personal experience? I've got 180k on my BMW 5 series and my mechanic says the BMW V12s are bullit proof if you don't overheat them. I would suspect the required maintenance would be less than the Ferrari, Maserati, etc. It's an affordable V12.

From a discussion with a friend, who admittedly doesn't do his own labor and uses the best parts - Catalytic converters - Only $2,020 per side (2 required) plus $300 labor. If the crankshaft sensor is bad on one bank, which is common enough, that requires a new sensor and a new harness for that sensor is required by BMW plus labor to wire it into the main harness and we come up with a grand total of........$3,800. Now if we should need a head gasket on one side only that would be 15 hours labor plus $3890 in parts (refurbish one cylinder head), so that's $6,424.

$6,424 - $3,890 = $2,534 / 15 = $168.93 per hour for labor.

Here is another aspect... Assuming good record, full coverage, for six months,

1998 NSX 1052.78

1998 M3 1043.08

2001 Z06 693.51

1998 RT10 1043.08

1998 XK8 871.68

2008 Lotus SC 1337.80

2005 SL55 AMG 1241.94

1999 996 871.64

2012 Miata 751.83

These prices don't include a multi policy discount, and most of these cars would be second cars to most people, so they would get pleasure use, so that would make it cheaper. But its a fun comparison. I do work for Farm Bureau insurance, in MI.

Joey

Interesting that the Z06 is cheapest and the 4 cyl Lotus is highest.

Argo1 wrote: Interesting that the Z06 is cheapest and the 4 cyl Lotus is highest.

Alot of that is the age of the two cars, as well as safety. I wouldn't want to crash either, but I would rather crash in the corvette, as it has 1000 pounds more mass.

Joey

The first thing that popped into my head was "budget" and "supercar" shouldn't be used in the same sentence.

But after looking at the options, it really comes down to what are you getting a supercar for.

If you want to impress everyone at the country club, then get the ferraris.

If supercar = DD, for me I have to have some semblance of a back seat, so give me the BMW.

If supercar = track toy than lotus

if supercar = cruise anywhere you want in the states, have fun, occasional autocross, etc then vette

In reply to Rusnak_322:

Dude is in San Francisco. Ouch.

joey48442 wrote:

Argo1 wrote: Interesting that the Z06 is cheapest and the 4 cyl Lotus is highest.

Alot of that is the age of the two cars, as well as safety. I wouldn't want to crash either, but I would rather crash in the corvette, as it has 1000 pounds more mass. Joey

And part of is that the clamshells on an Elise cost a small fortune and so much as bumping a curb tends to ruin them.

If stretching to buy the car, you certainly won't have much left for big repair bills. I vote Z06. The other cars may have more 'soul' but I'd rather be driving than wrenching...

I've been looking at NSXs for a few years and plan on buying one once I'm done with my MBA this May.

I had this debate and bought a 2002 Z06 for $21k. You'd be amazed at the amount of stuff that will fit in the trunk area. I've been getting around 25 mpg, as well.

It is interesting that the Z06 is getting lots of love for being "practical". What if the car is just your weekend toy and not a daily driver? Does that change your pick? Having owned a few Porsches and finding them exceptionally reliable and practical, I find it curious that nobody has tagged them as a usable supercar. The Porsches were actually more reliable than my Vette, though I enjoyed the Vette as well.

Argo1 wrote:

Otto Maddox wrote: 850s are horrible to maintain. They are damn near free because of this. Even for free, I don't want one.

I'm curious. What is the maintenance issue? From personal experience? I've got 180k on my BMW 5 series and my mechanic says the BMW V12s are bullit proof if you don't overheat them. I would suspect the required maintenance would be less than the Ferrari, Maserati, etc. It's an affordable V12.

I have the same question. Sure, the BMW V12 isn't a Toyota four-cylinder, but I call shenanigans on saying it is a more difficult car than a goddamn Ferrari, Maserati, Lotus, etc.

At $20K it's the Z06 every day and twice on Sunday.

If we're talking $30K and a "proper" supercar, it's an early F355 manual (no flappy paddle F1 BS) TARGA. In Fly Yellow. I want one of those in the worst way...

Argo1 wrote: It is interesting that the Z06 is getting lots of love for being "practical". What if the car is just your weekend toy and not a daily driver? Does that change your pick? Having owned a few Porsches and finding them exceptionally reliable and practical, I find it curious that nobody has tagged them as a usable supercar. The Porsches were actually more reliable than my Vette, though I enjoyed the Vette as well.

I know a ton of people in Calgary and Edmonton who DD awd Porsches. Not really any problems with them. Only thing is, the more miles you rack up (as on any vehicle) the closer you come to needing to rebuild the motor... and Porsche motors are insane.

If anyone can find a 355 in decent shape for $30k, I'll write a check tomorrow. But I think you'll probably find Bigfoot humping the Loch Ness Monster first.

Will wrote: If anyone can find a 355 in decent shape for $30k, I'll write a check tomorrow. But I think you'll probably find Bigfoot humping the Loch Ness Monster first.

I have been looking for 3 mos. The cheapest F355 I found in Nj with 54,000 miles - needed a service, had 2 ins claims (minor ones) and it sold for $44k.

30K F355 isn't happening...

On the other side.. one car missing is an RS america. My GRM teammate just got a 94 RS america with low miles out of Seattle for 32K..

30K, 40K, 50K, I don't care. All I know is I desire a Targa F355 M6 something fierce.

Everyone should watch the top gear episodes dealing with budget supercars before pulling the trigger. If only for a laugh....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx0S3cIW-q8

Not a single Viper vote? Interesting.

cwaters wrote: Not a single Viper vote? Interesting.

I personally feel that dollar for dollar (and this is a totally uninformed opinion btw), you can get a newer, "better" Vette for the same price as an older, miled out Viper. Not to offend, but the first Vipers were... meh. They LOOKED cool, and were "fast", but from what I understand not quite the handling beasts they evolved to be.

bearmtnmartin wrote: Everyone should watch the top gear episodes dealing with budget supercars before pulling the trigger. If only for a laugh.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx0S3cIW-q8

One of the all time great Top Gear episodes. Also why the 20 year old limit. Let's face it, cars from the late 70s and early 80s weren't very good. Even supercars. Tough time to be an enthusiast. I say that today is the "Golden Age of Motoring". Look what is available used and new.