If it's a strip truck, no reason to go T56. A Super T-10 will do fine.
If it's a strip truck, no reason to go T56. A Super T-10 will do fine.
shelbyz wrote:BrokenYugo wrote: In reply to shelbyz: Yup, you're not getting an aluminum block LS and a T56 for cheap, but you can do nearly as good with an iron block 4.8/5.3 engine and a craigslist TH400.Some of the 5.3's had an aluminum block and are usually just as affordable.
Ever since the LS swap everything craze took over, you can build a nasty gen1 sbc for what a 4.8L will run you.....or perhaps this is a regional thing that you can still find the LQ(iron LS)for something bordering reasonable.
Personally, I wish I had seen this coming......because I have personally thrown over 100 ls1 intake manifolds in the trash after changing them out with ls6 units. Those intakes go for $200+ each now a days. Morons, morons all of 'em.
Simple, run at an 1/8 mile strip
In reply to WOW Really Paul?:
Yeah, it's a regional thing, you can get a 5.3 from a salvage yard in the Detroit area for $400-700 all day long depending on miles, a bill or two less for a 4.8.
Though it's certainly possible to do "crazy turbo V8" for the same or less with gen 1 stuff if you're careful. I can't find the build thread now but years ago a guy put twins and nitrous on a slapped together, rering job, cast crank, 2 bolt, 350 truck motor with crappy small port heads and stock bolts throughout and made like 600HP with it, then made 738hp with better heads and turbos and put a 3rd gen Trans Am deep into the 9s. His secret was basically just good tune and keeping the revs under 5500. You could probably get to 500 pretty easy on pump gas with just boost and maybe water/meth (or E85).
This is the teardown thread, he ran it for years. http://www.theturboforums.com/threads/364019-GRENADE-teardown-autopsy-This-should-be-fun%21
edit: here's the build thread http://www.theturboforums.com/threads/305001-How-long-till-it-grenades-%28-It-never-did%21-Go-figure-%29-Grenade-part-2-to-come
shelbyz wrote:BrokenYugo wrote: In reply to shelbyz: Yup, you're not getting an aluminum block LS and a T56 for cheap, but you can do nearly as good with an iron block 4.8/5.3 engine and a craigslist TH400.Some of the 5.3's had an aluminum block and are usually just as affordable.
Aluminum 5.3s go for LS1 money now. The blocks can be bored out to 5.7 size.
Opti wrote: I literally meant street racing, i dont participate, but i sure do enjoy watching it. Its fun, and dumb, to watch these guys put down 500-2000 hp on the street, with nothing more than some pimp juice and a big burnout. But i dont plan on doing it with the car, i much prefer the track. But i plan on keeping it simple and cheap to see if its something ill like doing. Roght now in thinking 96-97 Lt1 fbody, Pull all the weight, Cam it, spray it, in a chassis that works shouldnt have problems breaking into 10s. Simple should keep me from having too fabricate much, caise im pretty terrible. And since its an LT1 car, even with really loud exhaust and a huge cam its still a sleeper, cause its not an LS. Plus ive been dying to get an LT1 back in the garage. No foxbodies cause that E36 M3s boring, and literally about a third of all the cars at the tracks we frequent are foxbodies, If i wanted to go REAL fast ill look to boost in the future, but nitrous is cheaper for a quick 150 to 200 hp.
Fox body's are everywear because its the easy button and it works.
LS engine Fox body FTW 
I've got a 10 sec. car. 0-60 that is.
Ls1 and foxbody is boring. LT1 all the way, no one will expect it, i like the idea of a manual but although i used to be quite good a dig racing with one, im not near as confident in my abilities nowadays, and a loose ass converter would probably ne faster anyways.
Ls moyors have gone way up but deals are still out there. A juddy just scored a rebuilt 6.0 for 800. After selling the worked heads and aftermarket cam, hes only in it a few hundred, and its got arp bolts throughout, new bearing and no run time.
Opti wrote: Been running around with some drag racers lately, they do the No prep and the street racing thing, and its been hell of a time. So Ive been thinking about building a track car. I think I know how I'd do it, but Im curious how you guys would do it. Criteria Cheap as possible Sleeper is a bonus RWD Probably auto
Hey Opti, Really cool thread started here.
10s are certainly attainable and easy to do cheap. Depending on your engine preference makes a huge difference on costs. But ultimately its a power to weight.... with traction.
Back in the early 90s we did a lot of what is equivalent to todays 'no prep'. I ran a pair of 69 Nova's with 427 BBCs. Had both of them at the same time. One was a L88 fiberglass everything. The L88 powered unit ran 10.88 at mid 120s and needed slick to do anything. Eventually had to take it off the road when the second knucklehead showed up. The other a low compression slug that responded well to NOS. The slug ran 11.46s but could do that on a grease slick, without NOS, on street tires (Quick Time IIRC). It was a total sleeper. The battery box was gutted. The "battery lead" was the nitrous line. Bench seat, column shift. If it was behind, the inspiration switch was the horn button going to a 3 way switch that charged the solenoids. Won a lot of races with it.
I say all that reflecting on the fact that it was way tougher to go fast 25 years ago. Today, the technology is very user friendly. For a sleeper, a SBC with heads that flows 250 cfm or more, less then 3000# and you're there.
A little less sleepy solution could be an LS. The engines are cheap. We have bought 14 in the last year and a half, none of them were over $800 including the harness and computer. The problem is the injectors and fuel pumps to run a turbo hammer the budget, but its 9 second potential.
The single biggest challenge to running something other than Chevrolet AND run fast will be your Automatic transmission cost. You can build a cheap Ford engine that makes plenty of power, but the trannies are pricey. Most folks around here do a PG, T350 or T400 trans with a Ford to GM bellhousing.
We have a Nova body we picked up for $50 off of Craigslist. I don't have picture posting ability or I would share. I have thought a time or two to do a GRM board build with audience participation for the fun of it. We started doing that a bit on FB, posting Craigslist purchases. I would still be interested, but we are trying to complete 4 builds this year. If we get enough interest, we could kick it in gear after the Challenge this year.
Regardless, best of luck on your build.
Opti wrote: Ls1 and foxbody is boring. LT1 all the way, no one will expect it, i like the idea of a manual but although i used to be quite good a dig racing with one, im not near as confident in my abilities nowadays, and a loose ass converter would probably ne faster anyways. Ls moyors have gone way up but deals are still out there. A juddy just scored a rebuilt 6.0 for 800. After selling the worked heads and aftermarket cam, hes only in it a few hundred, and its got arp bolts throughout, new bearing and no run time.
We have purchased (4) 6.0L and have $1,425 in all of them. Watch the 2000 and earlier ones. They are more difficult to do a cheap build with.
god has spoken, let it be known, all praise him.
All seriousness, do you say stay away from the early 6.0 cause the iron heads? Im not super versed in ls but i do recall 99 6.0 have low comp iron heads...i believe...
In reply to Apexcarver: This may not be the cheapest, but its the most awesome idea.
In reply to chiodos: I seem to recall the crankshaft being different making it more difficult to adapt a transmission.
chiodos wrote: All seriousness, do you say stay away from the early 6.0 cause the iron heads?
The heads are a minor issue. I actually sold my iron heads.
The issue is the crank. Being .400" longer in the rear, it requires a unique SFI flex plate. ALL other LS take one of two flex plates. IIRC the p/n is 12362 for the one. Basically, there is one for the wider and one for the smaller torque converter pattern. Thus if you buy that/those flex plate(s), it is essentially universal. Whereas the 2000 6.0L flex plate is only good for it and is $220 more than the "universal" flex plates. And please use an SFI flex plate if your boosting or spraying. You can't move your feet fast enough when that junk starts flying.
I don't know if you are familiar with the yellow coupe bug we ran at the '09 and '13 Challenges, but if you are, we had a transmission come apart at over 145. We used up every ounce of SFI in the shields and plate. It was so violent, Hot Rod put a picture of the trans in their magazine.
Back to your original question, if we hurt our 2000 6.0L, we will swap the crank to a stroker, and the flex plate will sit until we find another. The beauty of the Chevy engine(s) is the is their huge volume and interchangeability. Even the unique SBC 400 had a large volume with a 7 year production
Chadeux wrote: In reply to chiodos: I seem to recall the crankshaft being different making it more difficult to adapt a transmission.
Close. It is easier for that engine. Everything else requires and sleeve for the torque converter snout.
Ah, makes sense thanks for clarifying. And 
at that trans mishap at a high rate of speed! I knew of the car but not of that trans failure, i looked it up in hotrod and saw the photo, duly noted that sfi and just saftey stuff in general is VERY important when going fast.
shelbyz wrote:WOW Really Paul? wrote: In reply to shelbyz: And those reasons are why it is nearly unrealistic to put cheap & LSx in the same sentence these days. Hell, it used to be $1500 for a crated LS1/t56 combo in my area a decade ago....now the trans is more than that on its own, and the ls1 is about 2-2.5x that much. As the current market sits, I'd rather build a gen1 SBC than an LS. Less expensive and can yield power if done right. On the other hand, I am also not afraid of frankenbuilds using forgotten power plants. Most people don't know what a poncho 350 is capable of.....just needs some parts from other poncho engines.But that's why you opt for the LS based "Vortec" motors that don't have "LS" in their title. Scrapyards are filled with fleet trucks and Savana/Express vans that have the 4.8 or 5.3 variant, which can accommodate the same aftermarket heads/cams/etc as the LS variants. They can also handle 600+ HP without needing to be cracked open. Here's an example: http://www.hoonable.com/build-a-turbocharged-600hp-ls-motor-for-under-2500/
Can someone identify the injectors in the article, and what size they are in pounds? Injector costs are a big hit for the budget builds.
Opti wrote: I literally meant street racing, i dont participate, but i sure do enjoy watching it. Its fun, and dumb, to watch these guys put down 500-2000 hp on the street, with nothing more than some pimp juice and a big burnout. But i dont plan on doing it with the car, i much prefer the track. But i plan on keeping it simple and cheap to see if its something ill like doing. Roght now in thinking 96-97 Lt1 fbody, Pull all the weight, Cam it, spray it, in a chassis that works shouldnt have problems breaking into 10s. Simple should keep me from having too fabricate much, caise im pretty terrible. And since its an LT1 car, even with really loud exhaust and a huge cam its still a sleeper, cause its not an LS. Plus ive been dying to get an LT1 back in the garage. No foxbodies cause that E36 M3s boring, and literally about a third of all the cars at the tracks we frequent are foxbodies, If i wanted to go REAL fast ill look to boost in the future, but nitrous is cheaper for a quick 150 to 200 hp.
Do what Ben Moore did. He ran 9s on an LT1 car. His combo was a 396 stroker kit, AFR heads, a modified Brodix intake and a fairly mild cam for 456 hp and 367 lb-ft. No nitrous or anything, just a ton of lightening and a good chassis tune and he ran 9.90s
Anybody play with Japanese?
Seems like the 1Uz~FE would be completely capable, if you could live with the transmission options.
In reply to SVreX:
Only if you strap a big enough turbo to it, but then again if you strap a big enough turbo to anything it will go fast..er
SVreX wrote: Anybody play with Japanese? Seems like the 1Uz~FE would be completely capable, if you could live with the transmission options.
Most people dismiss them for budget builds because the manual transmission options require expensive adapters. The auto is a possibility. Some of the boosted Supra guys use the auto for drag racing. IIRC it is the same one that comes behind the 1uzfe so it should be possible to make it survive 500'ish hp. That trans is used all the way up to the biggest Landcruisers with the main difference being a different clutch basket with more plates.
Any tips on finding a decent lsx? CL? CoPart? Know a guy who knows a guy? Not just the aluminum one, but any derivitive.
In reply to Appleseed:
Junkyard is full of trucks waiting to have the engine picked. There's easily 10 5.3Ls at my local junkyard. $125 a piece and they will even pull the engine.
How far is this package away from the magic 10 second barrier? $1000 NMNA
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