When a friend offered to sell a 2014 Tesla Model S P85D with AWD and 700 horsepower for just $10,000, I couldn't resist.
As apprehensive as I was, I did a lot of research and found a ton of people still driving these cars with over 100,000 miles on them, so I took the leap, sold my Nissan Frontier, …
How does a failed drive unit cause all those errors?
EDIT: I'd at least share the details on the TeslaMotorsClub forum. There are some pretty knowledgable members.
Are used units available and able to be programmed to work? Seems like there should be plenty of them out there.
Yikes. Thanks for sharing. What exactly is a drive unit?
This is the same GRM that dug into an unserviceable Porsche transmission to fix it for pennies. Let's see some more creative approaches, like can we fix the control electronics or get a good used unit from a junkyard? Model S rear drive units are sought after for swaps, can you sell the old one to someone who's looking to DIY a fix?
Buying heavily depreciated high dollar cars always comes with this sort of risk. Meanwhile, I had to put an $1800 reman engine into a $2500 Toyota pickup so I understand the pain.
CyberEric said:Yikes. Thanks for sharing. What exactly is a drive unit?
The motor/transmission.
In reply to Sonic :
Used units are available but all will have the same issue that caused mine to fail. A bad seal that lets coolant leak into the inverter and fry the electronics. You can replace them and code in the new unit to the car but with no knowledge of the inside of the unit you are taking a $4k-$6k gamble in parts.
How many miles does the Tesla have on it ?
In reply to californiamilleghia :
It has 83,000 miles on it.
I think that understanding what caused your failure should help you decide whether you keep the car. I sold my 2014 P85+ (not the dual motor) with, I think, 160,000 miles on it. The battery capacity was comfortably at 80-85% or so, the motor still pulled like hell, and I had no issues with reliability--so they can go the distance. As long as you don't have some sort of goofy un-diagnosed issue plaguing the car.
You said a seal failed and killed your drive unit. That's fairly straight-forward (i.e. you didn't have some electrical surge that fried stuff and you can't figure out where that came from). Does the front drive unit have a similar seal? Is there a reputation for that rear seal failing, and does the front drive unit have a similar reputation? I mean, if you fix it, and you don't expect it to fail again, why not keep it?
That's a heart-stopping repair bill, and it would sink me--but it's not that dissimilar from what a Porsche owner would experience if their 997/987 engine had bore scoring or a RMS failure.
Chris Tropea said:In reply to Sonic :
Used units are available but all will have the same issue that caused mine to fail. A bad seal that lets coolant leak into the inverter and fry the electronics. You can replace them and code in the new unit to the car but with no knowledge of the inside of the unit you are taking a $4k-$6k gamble in parts.
Why can't you buy a used one and find the upgrade kit?
Or does Tesla not allow those out into the wild for some reason?
In reply to confuZion3 :
So far it looks like the issues are isolated to that failed seal in the rear drive unit. If that is the case then you are right, that is the big issue besides the battery that will be a big cost to fix. There is not as big of an issue with the front drive unit, much less chance of failure because the smaller drive unit in the front does not have the cooling loop.
So, does the new drivetrain have the fix incorporated?
I always have the same internal debate with a car that I like that I just had to drop big money on. Is something else going to fail?
But, this sounds sorta like the Porsche IMS bearing. Once it's fixed, it should have a failure again!
I say keep it.
nderwater said:That's a heart-stopping repair bill, and it would sink me--but it's not that dissimilar from what a Porsche owner would experience if their 997/987 engine had bore scoring or a RMS failure.
That’s a fair analogy.
In reply to wvumtnbkr :
The unit that is being installed has the revision that they say fixes this issue. The bigger thing for me is that it has a warranty with it so that I am not out of pocket to replace it again in the next 4 years or 50K miles.
Interesting that as a company GRM bans political statements from their forums but doesn't mind interjecting them into their articles.
While I don't have a problem with a private business having double standards, they do raise a few eyebrows.
In reply to californiamilleghia :
For an EV, age matters much more than miles. Really only the suspension cares about miles.
mfennell said:How does a failed drive unit cause all those errors?
EDIT: I'd at least share the details on the TeslaMotorsClub forum. There are some pretty knowledgable members.
To my untrained eye, I see a lot of faults that could be caused by a dead 12v battery, but the biggies are the ones that have "isolation" in them.
In all EVs and hybrids, the HV systems do not contact the chassis electrically the way the 12v system does with its grounding. It floats around in its own little world, BUT they do monitor for continuity between the HV circuits and ground. If there's continuity, it won't allow the HV system to come online, for safety reasons. Continuity between an HV circuit and ground indicates a damaged wire or component.
A failing motor definitely can cause this, as can contaminated fluid for systems that expose the HV systems directly to fluids. So can using the wrong type of fluid, which is my primary experience with it (refrigerant oils are conductive, electric compressors need special oils)
Writing about Tesla has always been a bit like touching a hot stove, but the heat has been turned up to 11 in recent months. I don't mind eliminating ambiguity on our opinions of the brand, lest we be confused with a corner of the internet nobody should frequent. Plus, the $15 billion decline in brand value Chris alluded to is a very real factor in deciding whether to keep the car or not, as well as its future resale value.
As far as double standards: Yep, we're a private business, and actively, constantly work to moderate this discussion and keep it headed in the right direction. It's one reason our forum continues to grow while others decline.
In reply to Tom Suddard :
The important thing is, how cheap can cars be had to electrify a different car, and how far has the general Internet hive gotten at jailbreaking the Tesla computer modules so they don't have to phone home, so the car can't be bricked remotely?
Don't we all just love playing sunk cost fallacy roulette?
I guess the way I see it is you have to think about this long term. Is this a car you love and could see yourself continuing to love even through the risk of further failure? Is the actual risk of further failure worth the emotional turmoil?
My rule of thumb has always kind of been that if you constantly wonder if you should have already sold something, you should have already sold it.
And FWIW, I should probably chime in and take some blame here, because I told Chris to buy this car. It's just so much performance for the dollar! I think at one point I said "Chris, you need to buy this, because otherwise I will and I really don't need another project." Then he did, and I spent one of the first evenings he owned it underneath with him helping to replace that blown air shock. We probably should have taken that as a sign....
As far as what to do next, here's my advice:
If you love the car, then keep driving it--in theory you've eliminated its biggest weak point, so you're in a decent position to get plenty more miles out of it. Run it into the ground and spin all four tires as much as possible on the way there.
But if you just bought it because it was a deal and never really connected to it, then this is your moment to get out: It should be easy to sell with a fresh RDU, and the excuse that you simply lost interest and bought another car. There's no shame in flipping a car you haven't connected with, especially if you'll make money in the process.
I'd buy a used LDU, put one of the fixes for the coolant loop in it (plug, billet bypass, there are several options), and drive out. I actually have the same car, down to the color (2014 P85D) and I'm planning on putting a plug in the LDU this year before mine exhibits issues. Mine currently has 96k on it, love the car.
LS Swap to create balance in the universe?
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