Buy or walk away? NB Miata track rat

So I'm looking at a 99 NB 1.8 Miata that a fellow autocrosser/friend has been using a couple years. Covid shut our local site down all last year and he mentioned in passing a couple months ago that he may sell the car. I just so happen to need a track rat and occasional autocross car. Win win right?

Here's the deets:

126k miles

Cheap ebay turbo kit

Voodoo Box

FM Spec 2 clutch/flywheel - practically brand new

Hard Dog roll bar - fairly certain no diagonals just a harness bar

Blackbird Fabworx adjustable lexan spoiler

EZ Streeet 2 coilovers

Some form of electric steering

Kirkey or similar driver seat with fixed homemade bracket

Plastic Jegs buggy seat with slider

Stock front sway/no rear

LSD diff (ratio unknown)

Hp pads rear - stock front

3 sets of used Hoosier slicks - circuit compound Sam Henry used during races

1 set of 14" Hoosier A7s brand new - I sold him these from my E30

1 set of rain tires

1 set of 15x9 949 6UL wheels

1 set of 14" BMW basketweaves for the A7s

1 set of factory 15" wheels

So that's the list. There are a couple issues I'm concerned about.

The doors were originally crank windows. They are now gutted. Not just glass, but cut inner skin.

Soft top sheetmetal stuff is cut out.

Electric steering has some bugs. In slow to no motion steering, the pump will overheat and shut off. When in motion no issues.

No HVAC stuff.

Turbo kit works fine at autocross, but for longer distances temps climb.

Need SFI approved harnesses.

Roll bar not up to spec for track duty.

Needs headlight and brake lights wired.

My trepidation of the above could probably be sorted with a few bucks and elbow grease. Hard top would fix the lack of soft top bracketry stuff. If the car becomes a trailer only vehicle, the HVAC and door stuff won't be as much an issue unless I wanted to run specific classes. Turbo kit can be removed and set up as an NA OR I go down the rabbit hole of radiator, oil cooler, hood vents, etc. Personally I think NA is the way to go for my purposes at least for now. The suspension will probably be a bit soft for my taste, but springs can be swapped easily for now. I want low consumables and cheap parts available. I think the Miata is the way to go.

The real question is this, buy the above for $3500 and have a great start with a few kinks OR buy a stock one with unknown background and start fresh?

The bar is a "Hard Bar" style bar, not acceptable for track use.

I'd be worried about that turbo unless it's set up quite conservatively, and that is rarely found under the same hood as "cheap ebay turbo kit". The NB has some limited knock sensing abilities and there's no closed loop fuel control. It'll definitely survive track work - I've spent quite a bit of time on track with a car with a similar setup - but it is dependent on being tuned appropriately. You'll also need some mechanical sensitivity to keep it alive. Still, driving within the capabilities of a car is a good challenge.

Not an awesome suspension setup.

So it's modified - but how many of those modifications will need to be modified or removed to make the car you want?

From a value standpoint that's a reasonable price for a rust free running Miata with no major issues.  However, I think you're looking at suspension parts, a cage or real roll bar and some engine development before it's going to work for your needs so you're going to have to put more money in.  I don't think you'll still be OK from a value standpoint but if the purchase price is near the top of your budget then you're going to run out of funds before you get it where you want it.

I bought a cheap turbo car last year.  The list of things I've now replaced or upgraded includes: engine, trans, clutch, turbo kit, computer, radiator, seats, harnesses, coilovers, coolant reroute, and much much more.   I'm over 10k deep in it now and it still doesn't run.

But it came with a proper roll bar, new top, upgraded brakes, no rust, working AC, and a fully functioning interior with power windows.

Doing it right costs $$$

To be fair, if you have to replace the engine and trans on your cheap turbo car it was pretty far gone when you bought it :)

What value do you put on being able to drive the car on the street if you want?

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Budget is about 8k but obviously the lower the cost the better. I figure about $2k for top, roll bar, and misc. stuff, but my math could be way off. As for suspension I know it's not ideal, but it's something that could be upgraded after I know what I hate about it. Most of the Miatas around here are in worse shape, and lots of mechanical unknowns. The better ones are priced around $5k and up. If I can find a more ideal car that's somewhat setup for around $5k I'd be happier. If I pull the turbo kit and just go NA I think the reliability concerns are massively curbed. No matter what I have to do work to this car or another one. I just don't know if I'm headed down the right path or not.

The good news is I know the guy well. It's mostly seen autocross runs, and that's basically it since he put the turbo kit on it. Street miles would be less than 20 minute spurts. So if the turbo kit is less than ideal it hasn't seen much play time.

The reason I'm getting a Miata is cheap parts and consumables. The FA20 in my FRS just showed signs of bearing material in the oil. I've caught it early, but a rebuild isn't going to be free. If I want a used engine the minimum is around $3500. That's a lot of cash. A 1.8 can be had pretty cheap and parts aren't astronomical from what I understand. Tires on the FRS are 18" and quite a few hundred more for good sticky stuff than the 15s. Brake consumables should be considerably cheaper as well.

In reply to NOHOME :

I honestly just want a dedicated track car. Street miles are not even in my thoughts. I have grown to prefer more plush vehicles for daily or even weekend miles. My Audi TDI A3 wagon is just sporty enough while having all the creature comforts. The only catch with the Miata scenario is that I need to trade my wife's Santa Fe for a Touareg diesel or similar for towing. Something we have been planning to do regardless.

The fact that temps climb with the turbo kit worries me. A couple friends of mine, one a very good mechanic, have been dealing with a similar issue with a turbo Miata for literally years. This is not their first go around with a turbo Miata either. That car is an NA8. It'll idle forever at perfect temp but after, say, 5 laps it's hot. That is, it would definitely be fine at an autocross. The mechanic friend has been unable to figure it out and a very, very good local tuner also hasn't been able to ID the issue. 

It sounds like this car falls into the same category and could be extremely frustrating if you're trying to track it. 

Another alternative is a non hacked Honda hatch?

Temps climbing is a side effect of driving a car with increased horsepower on track. There are no cooling modifications of any sort listed on that parts list. There are two aspects to making a turbo Miata reliable on track: address at least the low hanging fruit on the cooling system (coolant, radiator, ducting) and install a brain in the driver. A lot of people have trouble with the second part. This will undoubtedly turn into a "turbo Miatas suck on track because they blow up every 37 seconds" thread, but I have yet to hurt one on track. Of course, I rarely win the prize money at HPDEs either.

I don't see the value in this car other than the fact that you know the current owner. You're getting a dodgy turbo kit, a dodgy suspension, dodgy steering, a dodgy roll bar, dodgy wiring, a hacked up interior and a set of wheels. You'll do much better starting with a better, more expensive car even if it's bone stock. Like this one. Install roll bar and enjoy.

For $8k, I'd be looking to see if I could find a 1.6 Spec Miata. Then you'll have real safety gear and a logbook.

Way too many cheap parts and issues for me. 

I tracked a turbo Miata running ~200whp for three years.  It was fast and fun.  At those power levels if you use a real ECU and have it tuned properly you won't have any issues killing motors.  You will have issues with heat- I did many, many modifications to try to keep the heat under control and still couldn't finish 30 minute sessions in the summer.  Other things also start to break and wear out at that power level.  Unless it's a high-quality cast manifold you can expect a lot of problems there.  Manifold and exhaust studs are constantly loosening.  Stock brakes won't be enough for a good driver unless you like replacing pads every track day.  You'll want wider wheels and more rubber, which means that things like hubs and bearings won't last as long.  on and on...

For the last year I've been tracking a Spec Miata.  It has none of these issues, and while it's not as fast as the turbo car it is making me a much faster driver.  If I was just doing track days and not racing, to me the best smiles vs. dollars vs. headaches ratio would be a fully caged NB with a hard top, some mild aero mods, all the interior and extra weight stripped out and a VVT motor on Megasquirt.  Even for racing you could probably run a car like this in NASA ST5/6 or SCCA IT, or any of the endurance series.

Maybe I live too far into the rust belt, but $3500 for a pretty decent condition looking NB on its own seems like a decent deal. But very much consider it equivalent to a stock car (with a garbage turbo kit that you have to rip off or totally re-engineer) that comes with a few sets of decent wheels and tires. Seems like at least as good of a deal for a starting point as buying an unmodifed car from craigslist (unless prices are significantly better where you are). But if you're looking for an already 90% ready to go car, this definitely isn't it.

With that budget. I'd walk and find something you really like.  
 

buying cars is visceral for me.  Every time I've logically bought the "right" car for something (Right, meaning well modified or good car for the particular job),  I've hated it. 

In reply to z31maniac :

Honda or Miata? Care to elaborate?

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :

The thing is, I don't really like Miatas. They are just the best option for a track car in my budget. I like this one mainly because I've seen it move under it's own power and is relatively clean. The main downsides are that I didn't do the work so I'll have to go over it and make sure it's up to my standards. The 8k budget is what I'd like to spend max on a fully prepped car. If consumables are cheap from there on out, I'm golden. I am however probably jumping into things quickly VS waiting it out for the perfect car. I'm not a patient man.

Also, what kind of cost do you guys associate with just removing the turbo kit and putting back NA? I'm guessing it's as simple as a header/manifold and unplugging the Voodoo box? Fashion up an intake like the 949 boyz suggest? I'm figuring a couple hundred bucks should put it back to reasonable all things considered.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Yeah I know, it was running a Greddy turbo kit on a 185K mile 1.6.  The turbo was fine but the motor wasn't happy and when it blew I decided to upgrade to a VVT motor.  And as we all know this sets off a cascade of other things to replace.

All of this for a car that I don't even intend to track.  It's my "zippy sunday driver" car that might get taken down to the dragon a couple times a year.

captainawesome said:

Also, what kind of cost do you guys associate with just removing the turbo kit and putting back NA? I'm guessing it's as simple as a header/manifold and unplugging the Voodoo box? Fashion up an intake like the 949 boyz suggest? I'm figuring a couple hundred bucks should put it back to reasonable all things considered.

Hard to say because "ebay turbo kit" is not a clear definition. It may be as simple as a manifold, possibly an EGR pipe and an intake. I don't know what the cool kids are doing for intakes these days but make sure it has provision for a MAF. Depending on the level of hackery, the EGR system may require a little attention. If the EPAS system is an electric pump (sounds like it), I'd retrofit a stock pump instead of trying to solve its problems. 

If you don't like Miatas, this is very much the wrong car. Get a better one that won't require so much work and you might come to like them. Buy this one and you'll hate them.

In reply to captainawesome :

Dude. I'm with you. I don't like miatas.  I don't fit in miatas.  I bought one two years ago becuse it was the "best budget" track car. And it is. But it wasn't for me. I never bonded with it. Hated driving it on the street and just didn't enjoy working on it.   It just wasn't fun.   So if you're like me and I think you are   Find something else  

So I sold it and bout mountains bikes for the family. Much better move. 

I think my next car will be a mustang. 

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :

Damn. That's a big worry.

If you didn't try you wouldn't know though right?

Sounds like I need to do a test drive and see if it elicits any spark of enjoyment before pulling the trigger.

Why was the wiring messed with? If that's been altered what other treasures await you, that one thing makes me lean toward walk away.

So doing the math; Decent Suspension $1000-1200, Roll bar $400 and hard top $700-$2000 and so at a minimum you'll have a  $5600 in the car and possibly up to $7100 dollars in the car. 

I see ITA & Spec Miatas in the $6000-$8000 range fairly regularly.

At that point you still have a car that overheats and has issues with the power steering.

Also note for a track car I do no, repeat, do not like the gutted doors and replacement doors would be high on the list.

As a $3500 fun autocross car it's a reasonable deal. For a track car it would need to be no more than $2000 for me to buy it.

I think this one is a walk away scenario for me the more I think about it. All good info folks, I truly appreciate it.

In reply to captainawesome :

If you have $8k to spend and not sure you want a turbo ID find a stock car and swap suspension, add wheels and tires, proper roll bar and throw a good alignment on it and drive the heck out of it