dculberson wrote:SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote:Everyone shouting "Camaro Tail Lights," these look nothing like Camaro tail lights. Unless to you "every shape but round" is the same.
They barely even look remotely similar.
I just think they could have made them more "rounded" to better carry the heritage from the earliest of vettes. you could even do it within a single taillight piece.
dculberson wrote: Javelin, Is it then impossible that they would have a way to lighten the z06 over the base car? Why would there be no way to shave weight off the base car? Ahh hell, let's leave the "it will ruin the z06" speculation, and just deal with it when the z06 actually comes out. Speculating about near future things seems like a complete waste of time.
Well, no, but it doesn't take much to speculate man. The C6 Z06 is lighter because it has an aluminum frame, magnesium cradles, a fixed roof, and that's it. If the C7 Stingray has the aluminum frame (and lighter aluminum cradles), just exactly what else can they take out?
But you're right, there's no point in even bringing up any hypothetical C7 Z06. The base Stingray C7 is already confirmed by GM at the reveal to be heavier than the base C6, even with the aluminum frame, etc. That's still a fail, no matter how you slice it.
In reply to Bobzilla:
They don't know how much, which doesn't really matter. GM said it was heavier, period the end. Nothing else needs to be said.
In reply to Swank Force One:
Manufacturer already stated it was heavier, read the links. But hey, whatever you need to tell yourself for entertainment today. 
Javelin wrote: In reply to Bobzilla: They don't know *how much*, which doesn't really matter. GM said it was heavier, period the end. Nothing else needs to be said.
But there's no numbers yet. So saying it's massively heavier etc is ridiculous.
Javelin wrote: That's still a fail, no matter how you slice it.
Yep.... a 450hp, 3200lb, 50/50 weight that gets 30mpg on the highway is an absolute "fail".
Hi! Welcome to reality. I can tell you're new here.
jstein77 wrote:How could anyone not like this? It looks like an American Ferrari.
How could anyone not like this? Because GM...nonsense hate is nonsense.
In reply to 4cylndrfury:
That there is funny. 
Seriously, though, I think when MOST people comment negatively on this car, it's not because they think it's a piece of drek. They are holding it to a higher standard, which is actually a compliment to the car and the manufacturer. While agreeing that it's likely a great car, I hoped for better in the styling department, specifically the rearend and the instrument panel. I still think it's probably going to be a great car, but if I was going to buy a newer vette, it would be a C6.
jstein77 wrote: How could anyone not like this? It looks like an American Ferrari.
Some of us don't like Ferraris?
In reply to 4cylndrfury:
Buwahahahahahaha, pretty much sums this all up.......mind you, I owned what the cobalt was based on, and am lusting after a regal GS......so am I safe to assume I'm not a GM fanboy that only wants non-jumbo shrimp? 
mad_machine wrote:dculberson wrote:I just think they could have made them more "rounded" to better carry the heritage from the earliest of vettes. you could even do it within a single taillight piece.SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote:Everyone shouting "Camaro Tail Lights," these look nothing like Camaro tail lights. Unless to you "every shape but round" is the same.
I am in no way a fan of the new Camaro's styling, but am surprised by this photo comparison. I like the Camaro better.
Bobzilla wrote:Javelin wrote: In reply to Bobzilla: They don't know *how much*, which doesn't really matter. GM said it was heavier, period the end. Nothing else needs to be said.But there's no numbers yet. So saying it's massively heavier etc is ridiculous.
Show me where I said massively Bob! Come on man, you know I'm a freaking Corvette fan. I've said about a bazillion times on this board at how good the C4, C5, and C6 all were in their respective price points, there's 5 die-casts sitting on my desk with this computer I'm typing, and I've owned a C4 before.
It's heavier. GM says it's heavier. That sucks.
No hyperbole, no BS, no ermygerd the sky falling stories here. Nowhere have I said anything or made any other claims that stated otherwise. Yeah, I tried to theorize on the potential of a Z06 a little, but any idiot can do that with the info GM has already released.
Sheesh, when the GM supporters start attacking each other!!
Javelin wrote:dculberson wrote: Javelin, Is it then impossible that they would have a way to lighten the z06 over the base car? Why would there be no way to shave weight off the base car? Ahh hell, let's leave the "it will ruin the z06" speculation, and just deal with it when the z06 actually comes out. Speculating about near future things seems like a complete waste of time.Well, no, but it doesn't take much to speculate man. The C6 Z06 is lighter because it has an aluminum frame, magnesium cradles, a fixed roof, and that's it. If the C7 Stingray has the aluminum frame (and lighter aluminum cradles), just exactly what else can they take out? But you're right, there's no point in even bringing up any hypothetical C7 Z06. The base Stingray C7 is already confirmed by GM at the reveal to be heavier than the base C6, even with the aluminum frame, etc. That's still a fail, no matter how you slice it.
Fail? How ridulous. The weight of the Corvette has been very competitive within its segment for many years. It is a world class sports car that does everything well, is economical, easily serviced, reliable, looks good, is easily modded, wins races everywhere, embarrasses fancy pedigrees and is a bargain. Now, we have a new version that is a stunner, is safer, promises an even higher performance envelope, a stiffer platform, a vastly upgraded interior(you know, that thing eveyone likes to complain about), grippy seats with a race harness slot, great aero management, great steering, even more trans options and a ton of really cool stuff. So, it may weigh a few pounds more? Big deal. Considering that the Vette still only weighs a few pounds more than a big block from the sixties, yet has safety, performance and economy levels magnitudes above its legendary ancestors-I celebrate its greatness-America-F yeah!
Here's a thought-dig up some ancient Civic, BMW, Porsche, Audi, etc and see what real weight gain is.
jstein77 wrote:
That's awesome. Can't wait to check it out in person.
bravenrace wrote: In reply to 4cylndrfury: I still think it's probably going to be a great car, but if I was going to buy a newer vette, it would be a C6.
Me too, but because I am not spending $50k on a car. If I could get a C7 for $20k, I'd take it over the C6.
Javelin wrote: Well, no, but it doesn't take much to speculate man. The C6 Z06 is lighter because it has an aluminum frame, magnesium cradles, a fixed roof, and that's it. If the C7 Stingray has the aluminum frame (and lighter aluminum cradles), just exactly what else can they take out? But you're right, there's no point in even bringing up any hypothetical C7 Z06. The base Stingray C7 is already confirmed by GM at the reveal to be heavier than the base C6, even with the aluminum frame, etc. That's still a fail, no matter how you slice it.
There are myriad ways to shave weight off a vehicle, and naming the three things that made the prior generation z06 lighter as being carried over to the new base model doesn't mean that there aren't other ways they could shave weight. Carbon fiber body panels? Lighter floor? Carbon ceramic brakes? I could name literally a thousand things they could do to make the z06 lighter but it would be a complete waste of time.
Regarding it being a "fail, no matter how you slice it" that the new model is faster, more luxurious, more powerful, gets better gas mileage, and safer in a crash, and the tradeoff is a "we guess 100 pounds" weight gain, I'm just not seeing it. Yes it would be better if it was lighter, but a 450hp 3,200 pound car is not heavy for 2014 no matter how you "slice it."
I'm a realistic person, and I compare vehicles to their competition before considering them "a fail." I don't compare them to some mythical standard invented whole cloth in my head. What vehicle competes with this and how does the weight compare? As far as I know, pretty much everything that's lighter has significantly less power. Yes we all want 1700 pound 1200 horsepower vehicles but holding real cars up to that standard is ludicrous.
In reply to Swank Force One:
The "one person" you are attempting to discredit is the C7 Corvette Chief Engineer, who gave the direct quote that the C7 will weigh more than the outgoing C6 to the press at the actual C7 unveil at the NAIAS. He's going to be the one to write the damn spec sheet. And yes, a C7 Stingray to a base C6 is exactly apples to apples. Just like a 2013 NC base to a 2014 ND (or whenever the heck it comes out) base will be. They are both the very entry-level Corvette, with nearly the same price, performance specs, and equipment.
Knurled wrote:jstein77 wrote: How could anyone not like this? It looks like an American Ferrari.Some of us don't like Ferraris?
favorite color green?
Bobzilla wrote:Javelin wrote: That's still a fail, no matter how you slice it.Yep.... a 450hp, 3200lb, 50/50 weight that gets 30mpg on the highway is an absolute "fail". Hi! Welcome to reality. I can tell you're new here.
No, the only thing that fails is the increased weight. Which is exactly what I said. I love everything else. Thanks for trying to skew my words and stance.
Javelin wrote:Bobzilla wrote:No, the only thing that fails is the increased weight. Which is *exactly* what I said. I love everything else. Thanks for trying to skew my words and stance.Javelin wrote: That's still a fail, no matter how you slice it.Yep.... a 450hp, 3200lb, 50/50 weight that gets 30mpg on the highway is an absolute "fail". Hi! Welcome to reality. I can tell you're new here.
Well, let's bring you back to reality, shall we?
Here's the specs from 1980 to 2012 civic and corvette. You make the call as to whether it's a fail or not.
1980 Civic: 1731lbs, 60 hp/69tq 28lbs/hp
2012 Civic: 2877lbs, 140hp/128tq 20.5lbs/hp
1980 'Vette: 3520lbs, 230hp/285tq 15.3lb/hp
2012 vette: 3208lbs, 430hp/424tq 7.5lb/hp
2014 vette: 3308lbs(your guess), 450/450 7.3lb/hp.
No matter how you look at it, it's still a better car even if you add your mythical 100lbs. In fact, it would need to be 150+lb more to be the same power to weight as the C6 base car.
How about EPA ratings?
1980 civic 34/47
2012 civic 28/39
1980 corvette 14/20
2012 corvette 16/26 ('14 ~18/29)
So not only has the vette evolved to be lighter, stronger, faster, handle better, it is more fuel efficient. Not something the civic can claim.... any of them.
Bobzilla wrote:bravenrace wrote: In reply to 4cylndrfury: I still think it's probably going to be a great car, but if I was going to buy a newer vette, it would be a C6.Me too, but because I am not spending $50k on a car. If I could get a C7 for $20k, I'd take it over the C6.
You can get a new C6 for $20k? Please tell me where!
bravenrace wrote:Bobzilla wrote:You can get a new C6 for $20k? Please tell me where!bravenrace wrote: In reply to 4cylndrfury: I still think it's probably going to be a great car, but if I was going to buy a newer vette, it would be a C6.Me too, but because I am not spending $50k on a car. If I could get a C7 for $20k, I'd take it over the C6.
Not yet.... be patient. I'd say 6 months after the C7 hits the showrooms. I never said "new" either....
Even a used C6 is well over $20k still. Only now are C5's reliably getting into the sub-$20k range with <100k miles. Hopefully the C7's release will push the C6 down below $20k, we'll see.
Bobzilla wrote:bravenrace wrote:Not yet.... be patient. I'd say 6 months after the C7 hits the showrooms. I never said "new" either....Bobzilla wrote:You can get a new C6 for $20k? Please tell me where!bravenrace wrote: In reply to 4cylndrfury: I still think it's probably going to be a great car, but if I was going to buy a newer vette, it would be a C6.Me too, but because I am not spending $50k on a car. If I could get a C7 for $20k, I'd take it over the C6.
My "wink" was because I was talking new, since you can buy a new C6 right now.
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