Campervan Ramblings

I think what I'm realizing as I read through all of your thoughtful, reasoned responses is that I just don't want a trailer. Rational or not, I'm more comfortable with a self contained vehicle. I also really don't want to push the limits of the van's towing capabilities since we do go to Tahoe semi-frequently and there are some real mountains between here and there. Really we just need a tent on wheels with some storage space so we can leave gear in it - I don't need a bathroom, I don't need or want to cook in it, and most of our time is spent outside so comfort and amenities outside of sleeping is not really that important. Camping here is like 99% perfect weather.

We have friends with a "converted" Chevy Express (really just seats removed and a bed added) and it seems fine, though one of them sleeps outside still and it seems tight in there with two kids. It's a possibility.

I test drove an 01 Eurovan yesterday and liked it a lot - it drives just like a normal van, minus the weird seating position. My wife also thought she'd be comfortable driving it so we could consider selling our Grand Caravan even - with used prices the way they are right now, we'd make a profit on it that would cover most of the Eurovan price inflation that's happened over the last year. Lots to consider, but I'm going to get a PPI done on the one I saw yesterday and hopefully be posting pictures of my latest bad decision soon.

I have traveled a lot in a VW camper ,  its small for 2 people , but you can put a tent / awning on the outside so you can sit out in "Nature" when you want , 

But now they are way overpriced 

I  think it matters how many times a year you plan on using it ,  even 5 or 6 times a year its probably cheaper to rent one or stay at Hotels , and if you have to pay for storage at $50-$100 a month it get to be pretty expensive ,  and if you are in snow country outside storage will kill off a flat roof camper pretty quick !

In reply to cmcgregor (Forum Supporter) :

After now having the van for 14 years I still wonder why on earth I didn't go to a van sooner. They make total sense............it's a steel tent on wheels.

In reply to cmcgregor (Forum Supporter) :

It's all about figuring out which compromises are the ones that will work best for you and your family. Glad you're narrowing it down!

Regarding the repeated mention of hotels: This is a thread about non-tent options for family camping, not just road trips. There are experiences to be had and memories to be made that no hotel can offer:

In reply to cmcgregor (Forum Supporter) :

How about a temporary second story?  

Or more...

https://thedyrt.com/magazine/gear/hard-shell-roof-top-tent-roofnest/

My rig, 228 xplorer, on a b350. Only sleeps 3, but i believe they have high top models that sleep 4.

In reply to John Welsh :

This is also an option we've talked about a lot. The downside to it that I see is that we would put the kids in the van to sleep - which means we would end up needing to go out of the tent, down a ladder and open the door if/when they wake up in the middle of the night. It's definitely the cheapest way to go though and has some real upsides - like not adding another thing with wheels to register/insure/maintain.

In reply to cmcgregor (Forum Supporter) :

How much weight will your roof rack support?

Did the stripes ever go on?

Here is a hammock that is in vw campers , 

a couple brackets on the front windshield posts  and brackets behind the front doors , 

Rolls up to get it out of the way , 

alfadriver said:

In reply to pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) :

40 years ago, we did a cross country trip with a truck camper. 2 years later, math told my dad that a car + hotel was considerably cheaper. 

Definitely still true today.

For me, the main desire for a camper is flexibility.  There are times when I want to hop in the van and head to a bike park without worrying about finding a room. Especially since the places I want to go to often don't have inexpensive hotels near by.  A lot of the bike parks I ride at allow camping in the parking lot. Sometimes it's even free. No hookups, but that is why I want to build a self-contained van.

Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

alfadriver said:

In reply to pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) :

40 years ago, we did a cross country trip with a truck camper. 2 years later, math told my dad that a car + hotel was considerably cheaper. 

Definitely still true today.

For me, the main desire for a camper is flexibility.  There are times when I want to hop in the van and head to a bike park without worrying about finding a room. Especially since the places I want to go to often don't have inexpensive hotels near by.  A lot of the bike parks I ride at allow camping in the parking lot. Sometimes it's even free. No hookups, but that is why I want to build a self-contained van.

This is exactly why we got our van. It's more than just being able to stay anywhere it's also stopping along the way.

When I travel to out of town races there's a rest stop along the way that's the perfect time to stop. I love being able to have my own lunch (vs fast food) and a nice quiet place to eat it.

In reply to John Welsh :

Thule says 165 pounds, which is fine for many of the tents. The spacing may actually be more of an issue.

The stripes have not yet made their way onto the van, going to see how this campervan shopping thing pans out before I commit too hard to the Caravan. 

Turns out the Eurovan we looked at had a pretty serious front end accident in '18, so that's out. Trying to see a few more this weekend but this may push us further towards making the Caravan more capable for what we want to do.

Twenty years ago, we purchased a Coleman Niagara pop up.   Sleeps 8, with queen slides and the dining area converts to bed too.   The dining area is a slide out.  This model also has a shower/toilet combo.  We never used the toilet, but the shower was great for hosing of kids/dogs with warm water.   We've covered 36+ states and it's been a great camper.  
Lots of travel and family memories.   
The negatives :  

Coleman pop ups in this vintage have ABS roofs that area especially prone to cracking and failure.  It basically bankrupt the company in warranties.   Our sagged like a cheap sombrero.
I actually bought a used, perfect roof from someone parting out a rodent abused one for $250.  Easy swap and it looks new now    
Putting up and taking down takes time (about 60 minutes to leave)   Not great on long distance trips.   Also, putting it away wet or in rain is a pain.  

storage was in the garage   Not a big deal I have stored outside, but usually indoors   

towing was easy with anti sway friction link   Never an issue.  Mine is is a big one at 2300#, most are lighter

these campers are pretty easy to find nice ones that were family treasures and the are upgrading to a bigger camper. 

you can get nice used  ones for a few thousand.   Look for cracked roofs, water damage on floor and rodent damage to tenting.    
 

I restored a 72 Airstream 23 over the last few years. Family of four. We love the freedoms to camp in the winter and not have to poop in a vault toilet regardless of season. It's a pain to get the dump stations, etc. I love sleeping in a bed, but you can't hit in n out on the way to or fro with a trailer. I think a camper van is optimal, except if you want to drive to a hike, you have to clean the place up. And likely no toilet or shower. 
 

yeah. 

So before the truck camper, we had a pop up van for camping. Perfect for 4- two sleeping in the upper bunk, two down. It had a small amount of fresh water, and a small stove. Worked for us for about a decade of camping until we got too big. 
 

A quick search shows you can even get your own pop up kit!

I used to think roof top tents were cool. Now I think they are lame unless you are camping amongst lions and need the vertical to space yourself from getting killed. Now I think they are for safari posers, I mean, great people who like the aesthetic as much as the usefulness of anything, for cripes sake I own a Norton. And an MG.

Reasoning:

Cost is ten times or more the cost of a normal 4 man tent. 

Setup takes the same amount of time as a 4 man tent. 

Leveling is probably more difficult than for a normal tent. 

You want/need to drive to the trailhead for a hike? Well, budget time and pain in the ass to take the tent down before you leave and when you are tired on you return. 

They take up the space on your roof that you would normally have a box for all your crap. 

Really, they look cool, and have that "safari/overland" cred, but really.... just about useless in a practical situation.  If you really don't want a tent, a nice "little guy" teardrop is the next best thing. But before you go there- check out how to pimp out a tent situtation. Awesome thick pads, or cots, even a nightstand.... you can do great things in a tent. You cold? get a nice Kodiak canvas jobbie, and a Big Buddy propane heater. Rant off. Just enjoy getting outside and whatever floats your boat. It is *your* boat.

In reply to Teh E36 M3 :

I follow the Explore Southwest channel on YouTube. He's had a rooftop tent on a rack above the bed of his pickup for a while & recently posted a vid about it with almost identical thoughts as your. 

My two cents from a guy who has honestly spent almost 1/3 of his life in RVs.

If you're considering a pop-up, I would strongly consider a 2-room tent instead.  A popup is just a tent with wheels.  It will eventually leak, it can't be packed up wet without completely re-opening to dry it out, and (just like a tent) it is useless unless it is set up.  All of the shortcomings of a tent, plus you have to tow it, register it, and - depending on your state - insure it.  Granted, some popups are far more luxury than a tent, but it depends on what you want.  I personally chose a nice luxo tent.  I leave my 32' fifth wheel at the lake, and I have an AWD Express van for overlanding and overnighting.  As of yet, the Express isn't "converted" other than taking out the third seat, but I have plans for it.

My tent setup is a Kelty Sequoia 6 with a 4" Zinus memory foam mattress topper.  I toss my clothes in a small tote which doubles as a dandy night stand.  Add in a couple USB rechargeable lights that double as a charger for the phone and I'm good to go.  Longer trips I'll take an EZ-up and my chuckbox/mess kit.  Honestly, I can set up my tent faster than I can set up a pop up, and I can leave the hitch ball free for the boat.

I can't imagine a van conversion satisfying the original desire for kids having their own space.  A shortie motorhome might be better for that.  Or, if you're keen on converting something, short buses are often cheap.

Edit... sorry, forgot my main point.

My suggestion is to fold down the rear seats in the Caravan.  That is sleeping space #1.  Then tent, rooftop fold-out tent, or something else for space #2.  Since a popup doesn't really trip your trigger, a super-sweet tent is $500, then go ahead and treat yourself to a nice memory foam topper as a bed for $80 and a couple nice amenities.  Under $1000 you can be glamping.

This really only works if you aren't road-tripping, know what I mean?  If you're camping trips are driving during the day and spending the night in somewhere new every 24 hours, not the greatest solution.  If that is the case, I think a stubby class C is your ticket.

What is the tow rating on your Caravan?  If you end up with a small travel trailer, you can pretty much ignore your tow rating.  Travel trailers are made with such lightweight (read: cheap as berkeley) materials and they can give you a very false confidence.  They make them lighter so they can make them bigger.  So if your tow rating is 4000 lbs and you go shopping based on that, you'll find this lovely 24' ultralite with a GVW of 4000 and think you've hit paydirt.  Then you realize that you're towing a 24' billboard, and every passing truck or gust of wind requires you to be 200% totally focused on the drive so you don't kill your family upside-down in a ditch.  Depending on your personality, it can mean the difference between showing up at the campground happy and refreshed versus showing up ready to kill something... which is the opposite mental state of why you're vacationing.

This is also entirely dependent on how far you're going.  When I full-time lived in a TT, I had a 31' trailer towed by an F350 SRW pickup.  Definitely up to the task, but out in the midwest and deserts when you're putting in 10 hour driving days to get somewhere, by the end of the day I was really wishing I had bought a dually.  If I were only driving 2 hours to a campground a few times a year, I would have done it with a half-ton and just dealt with it, but your distances will definitely dictate the equipment.

Teh E36 M3 said:

 I think a camper van is optimal, except if you want to drive to a hike, you have to clean the place up. 

Having owned a non-poptop Vanagon Weekender and a now a poptop Eurovan Weekender, I find this to be the most significant thing for the way we travel. If you're traveling to a site and camping for a while these are great. If you like to travel locally during the day you have to pack up, bring down the top and if you have more than 2 people you're folding the rear seat back up. It's kind of a production. 

Both vehicles have gotten trendy and pricey, unfortunately.

This one.

https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/rvs/d/covina-96-ford-250-coachmen-camper-van/7345412745.html

paddygarcia said:

Teh E36 M3 said:

 I think a camper van is optimal, except if you want to drive to a hike, you have to clean the place up. 

Having owned a non-poptop Vanagon Weekender and a now a poptop Eurovan Weekender, I find this to be the most significant thing for the way we travel. If you're traveling to a site and camping for a while these are great. If you like to travel locally during the day you have to pack up, bring down the top and if you have more than 2 people you're folding the rear seat back up. It's kind of a production. 

Both vehicles have gotten trendy and pricey, unfortunately.

I've made my life infinitely more complicated by restoring a 72 Airstream. The tent thing is way more practical, but I'll be damned if I don't love pooping in my own toilet.

Teh E36 M3 said:

paddygarcia said:

Teh E36 M3 said:

 I think a camper van is optimal, except if you want to drive to a hike, you have to clean the place up. 

Having owned a non-poptop Vanagon Weekender and a now a poptop Eurovan Weekender, I find this to be the most significant thing for the way we travel. If you're traveling to a site and camping for a while these are great. If you like to travel locally during the day you have to pack up, bring down the top and if you have more than 2 people you're folding the rear seat back up. It's kind of a production. 

Both vehicles have gotten trendy and pricey, unfortunately.

I've made my life infinitely more complicated by restoring a 72 Airstream. The tent thing is way more practical, but I'll be damned if I don't love pooping in my own toilet.

Agreed.  Much of my camping is tenting and choosing a site near the bathhouse.  My summer "cottage" is a 32' fifth wheel where I enjoy long poop sessions in my own bathroom.

If you really want a money pit, look up Spartan Travel Trailers.  Well-made, all aluminum, and worthy of restorations.  You could get them in 50' lengths and 10' widths with 3 bedrooms.  Spartantrailer.com – Vintage Spartan Trailers

Tom1200 said:

This one.

https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/rvs/d/covina-96-ford-250-coachmen-camper-van/7345412745.html

 

Love this, but there's no way to put in car seats.

Looked at 3 different Eurovans today, found a good one that I'm probably picking up this week. Fingers crossed.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Teh E36 M3 said:

paddygarcia said:

Teh E36 M3 said:

 I think a camper van is optimal, except if you want to drive to a hike, you have to clean the place up. 

Having owned a non-poptop Vanagon Weekender and a now a poptop Eurovan Weekender, I find this to be the most significant thing for the way we travel. If you're traveling to a site and camping for a while these are great. If you like to travel locally during the day you have to pack up, bring down the top and if you have more than 2 people you're folding the rear seat back up. It's kind of a production. 

Both vehicles have gotten trendy and pricey, unfortunately.

I've made my life infinitely more complicated by restoring a 72 Airstream. The tent thing is way more practical, but I'll be damned if I don't love pooping in my own toilet.

Agreed.  Much of my camping is tenting and choosing a site near the bathhouse.  My summer "cottage" is a 32' fifth wheel where I enjoy long poop sessions in my own bathroom.

If you really want a money pit, look up Spartan Travel Trailers.  Well-made, all aluminum, and worthy of restorations.  You could get them in 50' lengths and 10' widths with 3 bedrooms.  Spartantrailer.com – Vintage Spartan Trailers

As you grow older, waking up to pee at 3am means that the bathhouse can't be close enough.  So having a toilet rocks, even if our bathroom is a tiny 2x3 ft, and that I have to duck just to fit in there.