A stock 1600 DP makes about 50, with a displacement bump to around 1700cc (cheap, like $170.00) twin single downdrafts (cheap, like $249.00) a dual outlet exhaust (cheap, like $154.00) a Pertronix ignition (cheap, like $138.00 for a whole dizzy) and a different cam (cheap, like $80.00) would make somewhere in the area of 70-75 HP without being completely fragile. Figure when all is said and done ~$1000.00.
I'm thinking 70 or so HP in a Baja Bug would be a lot of fun off road. 
I think you hit on something there, Curmudgeon.. people forget that Air Cooled VWs weigh next to nothing. Ones with Baja kits even less. 75hp is enough for spinning the wheels through three gears if you wanted
mad_machine wrote: I think you hit on something there, Curmudgeon.. people forget that Air Cooled VWs weigh next to nothing. Ones with Baja kits even less. 75hp is enough for spinning the wheels through three gears if you wanted
Seriously? I know that they're light, but that sounds like a bit of a reach to me.
Back when the NYS thruway opened it was soon apparent that the type 1 engine did not like high speed long distance running. No.3 cylinder would over heat and drop the head off the valve. Kept me busy rebuilding engines all day. Don't remenber any of the type 4 engines doing that. Besides, they had an extra main bearing.
Simple and easy to work on. Even pulling the engine is easy.
kreb wrote:ronholm wrote: Shoptalkforums Forget Samba... http://www.shoptalkforums.com/ And I second Kennedy...What are you using for a transaxle?Sold all the AC stuff last year.. the rail is powered by a Turbo Dodge powerplant.. No regrets... There isn't that much more wieght.. WAY more power... and AC VW engine would have been$$$$$$ to even compare... and yeah... No more BS.. I love it..
Stock Three rib bus.. Engine is a 1990 2.2 VNT..
30 inch tires for now.. and I play hard.. but it is a pretty light rail
kreb wrote:mad_machine wrote: I think you hit on something there, Curmudgeon.. people forget that Air Cooled VWs weigh next to nothing. Ones with Baja kits even less. 75hp is enough for spinning the wheels through three gears if you wantedSeriously? I know that they're light, but that sounds like a bit of a reach to me.
let me rephrase.. sorry.. you can scratch in three gears if you really wanted to. My 2.0 type four superbeetle. it had dual carbs and a lumpy cam that made made it idle like a harley could spin through two and scratch third easily... at least until I grenaded the transaxle.
My basically stock, 1600 DP powered 69 Baja was quick enough to be fun and could maintain 75+ mph. That is until the engine finally wore out after untold mileage and abuse.
I found a running 74 Super Beetle for $525 that I promptly pulled the engine and transaxel out of. Once I complete the rust repair on the Baja, I'll use them to make it go again.
If you watch CL, you should be able to find a good donor.
Good luck and have fun.
Bugs weigh next to nothing. A buddy in HS was into them big time, he and i got into the beer one afternoon and Sawzalled a Baja Bug. We just kept cutting stuff till it looked right. We would take that thing out in the swamps etc off of Hwy 601 down here, there were some areas with actual sand washes and we rolled that thing more than once. No roll cage. 
If it got on its side, we'd climb out of the high side and roll it the rest of the way over, the momentum would finish getting it back on all 4. Of course it would be flooded etc but we'd eventually get it fired up and go do it again.
I went in halvsies with another guy on a dune buggy which was a Beetle floorpan with a roll cage, it wasn't even shortened (buggies usually had the chassis shortened 14", IIRC). The cage was made of threaded galvanized plumbing pipe. We never rolled that one but we did get it stuck more than once. All we had to do was lift the thing and push.
iceracer wrote: Back when the NYS thruway opened it was soon apparent that the type 1 engine did not like high speed long distance running. No.3 cylinder would over heat and drop the head off the valve. Kept me busy rebuilding engines all day. Don't remenber any of the type 4 engines doing that. Besides, they had an extra main bearing. Simple and easy to work on. Even pulling the engine is easy.
Wasn't that #3 cylinder thing due to the placement of the stock oil cooler? Seems I remember there was a kit to reposition it outside the shroud for just that reason.
EDIT: Good site which covers that very situation: http://www.vw-resource.com/index.html It seems VW went to the 'doghouse' style oil cooler to get the cooler away from #3.
My 67 Bug project has as I recall a 1600 dual port with twin single barrel carbs and the factory transaxle. From my thus far limited time driving it pulled well enough to be fun but was no speed demon. The 74 Thing I had in highschool was a bone stock 1600 with the singe tiny carb and it was still fast enough to get into trouble going 70 in a 55 on the interstate. To go fast you will have to lay out some coin but to get it runing a basic 1600 is really not that expensive and they are dirt simple to work on.
As much as I love aircooleds if I was starting with a no engine car I'd do the subie. Your big price point will be the adapter at $500.
You can find early 90s EJ22 powered legacys for under $500 running, slushbox is fine, doesnt matter . We bought ours for $400 stripped out the motor, wiring and ECU and parted/scrapped the remainder for $450. So now your net is $450.
$100 for an ebay special honda civic 3 core aluminum radiator, oh, you saved those electric fans from the subie, one of them is the perfect size for this radiator. Net $550
2 lengths of 1.25 EMT conduit to run plumbing under the car $20, 4 "flexi hoses"....figure $50 Net $620. You are having double HP of a nice warmed over aircooled motor with better fuel economy and reliability.
Coupled with the gearing in a stock VW transaxle the thing flat out flies. We were turning 15.5 quarter miles in a 2000lb car with a 178,000 mile stock 2.2
Or....if you can lay your hands on a toyota 2TC or 3TC I can let you have the adapter to the VW engine for alot less than Kennedy wants.
To the OP: You have just stumbled into a nest of viperous automotive enablers.
Curmudgeon wrote: To the OP: You have just stumbled into a nest of viperous automotive enablers.
Who us? My wife has already been warned that when I remove the 2.2 from the Wartburg (to put in a 2.0T) its going right in her VW Thing. Then again this is the woman who when she got back from her first drive asked me what I was going to have to do so she could cruise at 75mph on the highway so she's not too saddened by the effort.
Woody wrote: Possibly the best book about anything ever. http://www.amazon.com/Keep-Volkswagen-Alive-Step-Step/dp/1566913101John Muir.
It is indeed.
The great thing about the Muir book is its just a good read, even if you aren't working on a VW its just fun to read. I gave a copy to my dad with his 69 Bug that he's DDing now, my dad who DID NOT give me my mechanical skills or tendancies. But he now calls me up and says "bug was doing xyz, found it in the book, fixed it"
Everyone should own it
I bought a used spiral bound copy about six months ago for less than $10 shipped.
Curmudgeon wrote: To the OP: You have just stumbled into a nest of viperous automotive enablers.
Haha thank you enablers. Now I just have to search the heck outa my local craigslist and see what I can come up with. Either way this sounds like its going to be fun
I have given copies of the Muir book to at lest 4 friends who knew nothing about cars when they said they wanted to learn. None of them ever looked under the hood on a real VW, but the theory is sound and applies in some way to every car. And the pictures are amazing.
JThw8 wrote: As much as I love aircooleds if I was starting with a no engine car I'd do the subie. Your big price point will be the adapter at $500.....
It just seems like a bit of a shame to take one of the most elegantly simple cars ever made and "complicate" it up.
Based on my personal experiences with a 1967 Karmann Ghia.
Forget everything you know about how an internal combustion engine should be assembled.
They're cool little motors and they've got lots of potential but they don't call these people "squareheads" for nothing.
Shawn
aircooled wrote:JThw8 wrote: As much as I love aircooleds if I was starting with a no engine car I'd do the subie. Your big price point will be the adapter at $500.....It just seems like a bit of a shame to take one of the most elegantly simple cars ever made and "complicate" it up.
I used to believe that, but after you drive a conversion and realize you now have a fun fast reliable car that you can drive on modern highways you will change your mind pretty quick. The "charm" of valve adjustments, points gapping and other such nonsense wears off pretty quick if you actually drive your cars.
points gapping is easily taken care of with a modern ignition. Valve adjustments.. ok, that is maintance. Can't really get away from that.. neither did BMW with the M cars
I used to drive my superbeetle daily.. with the 2.0 Type 4.. it could more than keep up with traffic, even if it did get very light in the rear over 100mph
JThw8 wrote: I used to believe that, but after you drive a conversion and realize you now have a fun fast reliable car that you can drive on modern highways you will change your mind pretty quick. The "charm" of valve adjustments, points gapping and other such nonsense wears off pretty quick if you actually drive your cars.
I'm surprised that I don't see more updated cars at autocrosses and track days. You put a turbo Subbie motor in a lightweight car like a Ghia and you've got supercar power-to-weight ratios. yes, the brakes and suspension are now in need of upgrades. But that's not so tough to do.
(answering my own question here) I think the reason is that it still takes a good deal more skill than bolting on an air intake and bigger tires on your Miata/Evo/Vette whatever. And you still have to deal with a tinny old car with old wiring, fuel system, impact protection, et cetera. But from a GRMers perspective, the idea of having a fifty-year-old vehicle that can blow off serious modern iron is delicious.
I wouldn't want to hack up a ghia for a radiator. They are just too pretty.
Maybe a type 3 fast back?
mad_machine wrote: I wouldn't want to hack up a ghia for a radiator. They are just too pretty. Maybe a type 3 fast back?
If I was going to run WRX power through the back of a Ghia, I'd want to widen the stance. I imagine building flares with air intakes in the front. One could serve the radiator, one the intercooller. Voila! Yes that is hacking it up. But IMO, you'd almost have to to manage that sort of power-to-weight in a rear-engined application. if you want to keep stock track, keep power under 150, lest you have an oversteering monster.
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