Can our E46 M3 run with a new Hyundai Elantra N?

Building a street car that can theoretically survive a track day is one thing, but what does the data actually say? Does the car quickly become a hot mess or does it remain composed?

The E46-chassis BMW M3 came from the factory with all sorts of neat bits–big brakes, limited-slip diff, wider track–so our prep has been a bit minimal …

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And how do we feel that we’re now comparing an M3 to the Elantra N?

Discuss.

This was a great article! 

Some thoughts:

- I'd love to see JG do more of these comparisons between cars that you guys run at The Firm. Old vs new, fwd vs awd vs rwd, doesnt matter, I think they are fun and show how good new cars are right out of the box. 

- Is there an article where you guys discuss what you guys use for data acq/telemetry? How did you measure the oil temp, and such. 

Again, I really liked this article. Good job!

Awesome article and writing. 

Maybe your preference just depends on how you feel about the BMW throwing codes after the run. It wouldn't bother me at all, but I'm a tech and not a driver. For somebody just focused on the driving aspect i could see it turning into a hassle.

David S. Wallens said:

And how do we feel that we’re now comparing an M3 to the Elantra N?

Discuss.

I think we all know how I feel about it. 

David S. Wallens said:

And how do we feel that we’re now comparing an M3 to the Elantra N?

Discuss.

Considering I race an Elantra N specifically against E46 M3's in SCCA TTT3 and Gridlife Street, I feel pretty good about it :)

Put the Elantra N on 255's just like the M3 (18x9.5 ET45 fits 255's easy with no modifications or fuss) and see what it does..

I thought you had it backwards; the title should have read:

Can our new Hyundai Elantra N run with an E46 M3?

I'm surprised it was so close!

David S. Wallens said:

And how do we feel that we’re now comparing an M3 to the Elantra N?

Discuss.

Considering the original E46 M3 was released in 2000, meaning it was designed in the 90s.........not surprised really.

There were two Elantra N cars at a recent HPDE I attended...

Seems like a reasonable choice to lease, run hard and walk away from for about a $35K car... (I think).

But that would perhaps be too rational...

I think I'm pleased that these laptimes are similar to what I ran in the MG at the post challenge track day..  

Good update.  I struggle thinking a ~2000 MY car is old.  But here we are. 

David S. Wallens said:

And how do we feel that we’re now comparing an M3 to the Elantra N?

Discuss.

Lol, I was thinking "wow, what a world we're living in" the whole time I was reading the article. It's insane how fast and good cars have gotten. 

I didn't know you guys had run a DCT EN. edit: for some reason I thought it was the MT. I've never run 615s, but I imagine the EN would have larger gap had it been on 200tw vs 200tw tires.

I have no idea what an Elantra looks like and tellingly there are only photos of the BMW in the article.  So I googled it.  Butt ugly.  Just like the Civic Type R of a  couple of years ago.  They might be amazing performers but I throw up in my mouth when I see them.

z31maniac said:

David S. Wallens said:

And how do we feel that we’re now comparing an M3 to the Elantra N?

Discuss.

Considering the original E46 M3 was released in 2000, meaning it was designed in the 90s.........not surprised really.

And E46 itself dates back even further. Hard to believe it’s now a 25-year-old car. I might be biased, but I think it still looks fresh. 

The fact that a sub-$40k Korean FWD car can lap anywhere close to a mildly prepared M3 of any generation is amazing to me.  What a time to be alive.

Slippery said:

This was a great article! 

Some thoughts:

- I'd love to see JG do more of these comparisons between cars that you guys run at The Firm. Old vs new, fwd vs awd vs rwd, doesnt matter, I think they are fun and show how good new cars are right out of the box. 

- Is there an article where you guys discuss what you guys use for data acq/telemetry? How did you measure the oil temp, and such. 

Again, I really liked this article. Good job!

Glad that you enjoyed the article and, yes, more JG/FIRM editorial in the works. 

We’re actually making some changes to our data setup, but more to come on that soon.

Thanks!

Surprised how heavy the M3 is. I test drove the N and was impressed. I recently took delivery of a GR Corolla and love it.

That weight comes from BMW, so we haven’t verified it. The 17-inch Apex wheels should save us a few pounds. 

David S. Wallens said:

z31maniac said:

David S. Wallens said:

And how do we feel that we’re now comparing an M3 to the Elantra N?

Discuss.

Considering the original E46 M3 was released in 2000, meaning it was designed in the 90s.........not surprised really.

And E46 itself dates back even further. Hard to believe it’s now a 25-year-old car. I might be biased, but I think it still looks fresh. 

I agree 100%. I actually looked for an 04-06 M3 before I got my 135 back in Jan '18. But the color combo + condition/mileage requirement I had for them put all of them up in the low-to-mid 30s. And I was worried about the rod bearing stuff.

So I get a '13 135i DCT, white over coral, with only 24k miles for $23k........and it treats my wallet like a rented mule before starting to make an unidentifiable racket (even to the mechanic), 18 months later it was gone with me only having put about 7k miles on it. 

I was rather worried about the rod bearings as well and finally had them done. Turns out it wasn’t that expensive of a job. Update about it here.

We have 2 E46 M3s and a 6MT Elantra N. I'm thrilled you published the comparison and cannot agree more strongly with how similar the cars are in performance.

I'd love to hear Albert Bierman's take and know if the N designers, powertrain and suspension teams actually benchmarked against any of Albert's past M cars.

I'm not surprised at all. Here is some food for thought on the march of progress:

At my home track one of the fastest 510s in the country is only 1 second a lap faster than the Spec Miata lap record; said 510 weighs 1800lbs and is making 200whp and prepped by folks with 50 years of 510 racing know how. 

If you made the same mild mods to the Hyundai that were done to the BMW, the M3 wouldn't keep up.

How does the M3 compare against other cars that we have tested at the FIRM? We have that data, too: The Grassroots Motorsports ultimate guide to track car lap times.

It's kind of embarrassing how slow the E46 is compared to a GTI (!), an EN, and Type R. This coming from a former BMW lover. Mainly because it has more power, although more weight.

The E46 M3 always seemed to struggle to put down power with the diff BMW put in it. I remember when it came out one of the mags had a racing driver drive it and complain that he actually got the fastest times when driving it with a lot of slip.

JG did comment that the M3 could have gone faster if I wasn’t present.