Can we please talk muscle

Lugnut said:

 

 

 

I'll take all the rest of the stuff that makes driving good. 

And I can't find anything at all about newer cars that makes driving good. 

I'm glad we have a choice, for now.

In reply to Spiritus_Spatium :

"Chevy builds the best engines"... hmmm....

I've had a '72 Dart and I currently have a '66 Plymouth Belvedere (long-term, stalled project). I grew up around MoPars and currently my brother has my dad's old '68 Coronet, my step-brother has a '67 Coronet, and my dad has a '67 Dart and a '72 Duster. My ride home from the hospital was in a '71 'Cuda. When I brought the RX7 home my dad told me I had a month to get it out of his garage.  He has since warmed up nicely to the car.

My dream muscle car would be either a '70 Coronet or a '70 GTX with a modern Hemi and modern suspension. Basically what my plans are for the '66.

I will say that in my opinion the '68-69 Chevelle is the "epitome of muscle car design", and the '66-67 Mustang fastback is a very close second. Even my dad really likes those Chevelles.

As for driving a classic, I did enjoy daily driving my RX7 until this year. The last few times I drove it to work, I had multiple close calls with idiots. One day I almost got nailed by a guy running a red light and I kind of decided maybe I shouldn't take it to work so much anymore. I've got a lot of history with the car and I would hate to lose that because of someone else. Maybe next year it will be better since my schedule is changing. I think it will see more driving on the weekends, and definitely see more autocross time next year. I like driving it, I like the attention it gets, but people just don't see a small black car in a sea of big silver SUVs.

Just going to throw in some cars that might not be popular for this discussion: Mercedes: 560SEL/SEC, w140 S600, e124 e400/400e medium size Benze with v8 and can be made to handle better. The S600 good for almost 400hp and are actually reliable.

Do you think we will be able to see the current offers as classics in the future? I think yes. 

I say the answer is somewhere between "no" and "not a snowball's chance in hell."

The classics and muscle cars we're talking about are desirable for a reason.  The Hot Rod scene of the late 40s and early 50s had a big impact on the car makers' decisions to go bolder.  Harley Earl's fins come to mind.  A true muscle car was stripped-down and stuffed with the biggest motor you could fit.  The goal was to go fast in a straight line.  When people went to the dealership to buy a Chevelle, they usually checked the box for LS5 and nothing else.  Manual brakes, steering, windows, no A/C.  Drag racing and NASCAR racing did for the youth of that time what drifting does for the youth today:  They go buy a civic and put stickers and a whale-tail on it.

The recipe was simple:  No excess weight, who cares if it turns, and accessible performance.  There were people in a room with a block of clay and sheet metal making things with their hearts and minds.  Today's cars are full of mandated safety things and churned out from CAD drawn designs and CNC stamped unobtanium plastics.  My 67 LeMans has 6 fuses.  Today's cars have about 6 fuse BOXES with about 10 fuses each, and miles of accompanying wiring, computer-controlled things, and satellite uplinks.  Then they wrap it in plastic panels, give it an engine that is big enough to move all the copper under the skin but not big enough to kill you too fast, and make a million of them.

Back in the day, every year was a new model year.  You look at a 64 chevy and know its a 64 because they only looked that way for one year.  Now with crash test safety standards its too expensive to do all that, so one facelift lasts a decade.

The collectible nature and love affair for muscle cars was a once-and-done thing.  Sure there will be other desirable cars in the future, but its not just about loving a certain old car.  This new stuff has no pedigree.  No heart.  Don't get me wrong, I like safety and EFI and crumple zones and technology, but you can't compare a new Mustang to an old mustang and say that a new one will become a classic as well.  It can't.  Not in the same way.

A 401 CJ said:

Spiritus_Spatium said:

wspohn said:

I had a muscle car, but it was British. Fibreglass body, big block Chrysler sixpack.  But then again it also handled and stopped pretty well - does that diqualify it from being considerd a muscle car?

 

Jensen?

Nah.  Can't be.  JENSEN on the valve covers wouldn't mean that 

Well, that wasn't visible in my phone haha

curtis73 said:

Do you think we will be able to see the current offers as classics in the future? I think yes. 

I say the answer is somewhere between "no" and "not a snowball's chance in hell."

 

Of course not in the same way, and those are my worries as well, that they're they too complex to fix oneself and keep on the road. To be honest, I believe that no, they are not impossible to repair. Also, one day people will be 3D printing the stuff they need for their "classic" Coyotes or Police Spec Charger.

I hate to see these cars as disposable, the fact that they have crumple zones doesn't take away from their awesomeness. I wonder what will happen with Scat Packs and LS3 Camaros when people my age start remembering how they owned one or whatever. Will they be sought after? Maybe, maybe you are right and they won't.

muscle(or pony) I've owned: 1968 GTO, 1966 Shelby GT-350-H, 1967 Shelby GT500, 1970 428SCJ Mach 1.....

Note... nothing "new".  The newest would be a 1980 Fox bodied Capri with a turbo 4.... (which I bought new)

The Cobra Jet Mustang was a restoration back in the 1990's.   

With all those qualifiers...   I'd rather be in a small, light weight fun car.

Spiritus_Spatium said:

curtis73 said:

Do you think we will be able to see the current offers as classics in the future? I think yes. 

I say the answer is somewhere between "no" and "not a snowball's chance in hell."

 

Of course not in the same way, and those are my worries as well, that they're they too complex to fix oneself and keep on the road. To be honest, I believe that no, they are not impossible to repair. Also, one day people will be 3D printing the stuff they need for their "classic" Coyotes or Police Spec Charger.

I hate to see these cars as disposable, the fact that they have crumple zones doesn't take away from their awesomeness. I wonder what will happen with Scat Packs and LS3 Camaros when people my age start remembering how they owned one or whatever. Will they be sought after? Maybe, maybe you are right and they won't.

The problem with keeping a modern muscle car on the road for a long time, is and will remain the electronics. The electronics control literally everything in the car, and once something gets weird with them, it screws everything up. Add to that, many ECUs are now VIN-specific. So in 20 years, when your ECU for your '09 GT500 goes bad, it will be near impossible to replace it. At least with a classic muscle car, nobody is going to fault you for having a basic mechanical system (carb and points vs. EFI and Coil-on-plug). Muscle cars, and classic cars in general, are extremely easy to repair, get running and keep running. The carb goes bad, you rebuild it or find a different one, and it will work to some degree, almost guaranteed. Go back to 1980s and 1990s cars today, and some parts just plain aren't available new or are hard to get.

If you can replace a carburetor with modern fuel injection, you'll be able to replace modern computers with something else. Could be newer computers, could be big battery packs, but cool cars will be worth keeping around. 

In reply to mazdeuce :

My thoughts exactly. Just go staand alone or something. I'm sure there will always be a way.

In the words of my former boss, Wil Sakowski, Everything fits anything with a torch and a welder.