Car and Driver releases this year's Lightning Lap results

Car and Driver just released their 2016 Lightning Lap results! Cars really just keeping faster and faster...

My takeaway thoughts:

-Sweet baby Jesus, the Focus RS is fast for a hot hatch! Focus RS ran a 3:03.9, which absolutely obliterated the Subaru STI (3:10.5) and VW Golf R (3:12.3)! Because I love my Golf R so much, I really need to avoid test driving a Focus RS, haha!

-The GT350R was quick, but still misses the last Camaro Z/28's time.

-Speaking of the Camaro, the new chassis appears to be in an entirely different league! For almost $20k off of the price of a GT350R, the Camaro SS 1LE is only a couple seconds off of it's lap time, despite a ~70hp disadvantage and nearly identical curb weights! Even the V6 version is a monster- damn near tying the Focus RS' lap time (3:04.0)!

Just about every time I see a new Lightning Lap posted, I feel like last year's models feel almost obsolete.... In the 1960's we had the muscle car/horsepower wars; whereas here lately manufacturers have been going at each other's throats in the "sports car wars"!

Times: http://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-2016-results-historical-lap-times-and-more-feature

Main article: http://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-2016-the-years-hottest-performance-cars-at-vir-feature

Tesla.. ohh man.. How they stunk it up.

I'd own basically every car on that list. There isn't a stinker in the lot. Amazing times we live in.

Yeah, just got my issue in the mail too, and the first thing I turned to was the FoRS results. It's placed in the LL2 group, which runs between $35K and $65K. Despite being at the very bottom of that price group, only two others were faster, and those two are a lot more expensive. (BMW M2, $55K, and Camaro SS 1LE, $63K) The FoRS certainly has the speed per dollar title wrapped up.

I got a kick out of the line that said that the proper driving technique was to toss it into the turns and mash the throttle to hold a power slide all the way around the corner. If this weekend's autocross was on a parking lot, I'd try that, but I'm not sure I want to risk that on the narrow go-kart track at Daytona. Next event, I will.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: Tesla.. ohh man.. How they stunk it up.

It's a 5000+ lb. 4-door luxury car that just happens to be really fast for a 1/4 of a mile, but it was never intended for road course work. That doesn't mean it isn't a great car - it is.

In reply to roninsoldier83:

I noticed the part where the GT350, with it's crazy flat-plane DOHC, 32V V8 and GM-derived magnetic ride suspension, still lost to the old Z/28. If/when GM builds a 6th-gen Z/28, it oughta be a real cooker. Note that the the V6 1LE Camaro was only a second slower than the Hellcat.

jstein77 wrote: I got a kick out of the line that said that the proper driving technique was to toss it into the turns and mash the throttle to hold a power slide all the way around the corner. If this weekend's autocross was on a parking lot, I'd try that, but I'm not sure I want to risk that on the narrow go-kart track at Daytona. Next event, I will.

I haven't read the article yet, did they mention any issues with overheating the rear diff like Vorshlag did?

In reply to NickD:

Dumb question- why is a flat plane V8 crazy? In theory, it would make a little more power than a normal V8 crank due to exhaust tuning, but other than that....

Apparently, though, the power isn't quite enough....

This whole set of mini articles is one of the reasons why I dropped C&D. They had raw numbers, but constantly had to justify their biases against cars they didn't like in spite of the times.

In reply to jstein77: There were actually 3 LL2 cars that were faster.

Focus RS- 3:03.9, $42,245 as tested

BMW M2- 3:01.9, $54,495 as tested

Camaro SS 1LE- 2:54.8, $45,700 as tested

Shelby GT350R- 2:51.8, $66,495 as tested

Focus RS is still impressively fast, especially for the money. That SS 1 LE definitely beats it in the speed/$ category though. 7 seconds per lap faster for just 3k more?!

A better comparison would've been the V6 Camaro 1LE, which ran a 3:04.0 and cost $43185 out the door. For stupid reasons, it was classified as an LL1 car though.

In reply to alfadriver:

I just meant that compared to the old-fashioned pushrod LS7, which was a pretty traditional old-school engine, the GT350 engine is pretty advanced.

Tom_Spangler wrote:

jstein77 wrote: I got a kick out of the line that said that the proper driving technique was to toss it into the turns and mash the throttle to hold a power slide all the way around the corner. If this weekend's autocross was on a parking lot, I'd try that, but I'm not sure I want to risk that on the narrow go-kart track at Daytona. Next event, I will.

I haven't read the article yet, did they mention any issues with overheating the rear diff like Vorshlag did?

Nope, not a word about it.

So the rear diff doesn't overheat if you drive the car like a Focus RS instead of like a Subaru.

jstein77 wrote:

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: Tesla.. ohh man.. How they stunk it up.

It's a 5000+ lb. 4-door luxury car that just happens to be really fast for a 1/4 of a mile, but it was never intended for road course work. That doesn't mean it isn't a great car - it is.

Talk to any owner or worse an employee and they'll tell you how that car is superior in everyway to every other car made.. While ignoring the obvious quality scares that require the cars to be rebuilt at an alarming rate.. but hey.. yes.. it's fast in a straight line. Elon Musk is trying to fix the quality and production issues with the 3 right now by sleeping in a conference room next to the production line in a sleeping bag. He's a smart dude.. A leader he is not.

The only problem I see with putting the FoRS in the LL2 class is going off MSRP. Local dealers here are adding a $20K premium

Knurled wrote: So the rear diff doesn't overheat if you drive the car like a Focus RS instead of like a Subaru.

Probably more like it doesn't overheat when you don't have a NASA TT multiple champion behind the wheel getting 10/10ths out of the car vs journalists?

jstein77 wrote: I got a kick out of the line that said that the proper driving technique was to toss it into the turns and mash the throttle to hold a power slide all the way around the corner.

That's generally been my experience with turbo AWD cars too - it's not quite like attempting to be a WRC driver, but yet not that far from it either. I also LFB, which I find helps balance a turbo car mid-corner without losing much boost.

NickD wrote: In reply to roninsoldier83: I noticed the part where the GT350, with it's crazy flat-plane DOHC, 32V V8 and GM-derived magnetic ride suspension, still lost to the old Z/28. If/when GM builds a 6th-gen Z/28, it oughta be a real cooker. Note that the the V6 1LE Camaro was only a second slower than the Hellcat.

But it will also likely still be mo fugly. If I'm going to pay that much for a new car, the numbers are only part of it. I have to actually like it as well. My first car was a 68 Camaro, but every model since they came back IMO looks terrible, and I don't care how much faster it gets around a track that I don't drive on.

The Hoff wrote: The only problem I see with putting the FoRS in the LL2 class is going off MSRP. Local dealers here are adding a $20K premium

I actually got mine for sticker price. I hear that some dealers aren't trying to gouge people.

NickD wrote: In reply to roninsoldier83: I noticed the part where the GT350, with it's crazy flat-plane DOHC, 32V V8 and GM-derived magnetic ride suspension, still lost to the old Z/28. If/when GM builds a 6th-gen Z/28, it oughta be a real cooker. Note that the the V6 1LE Camaro was only a second slower than the Hellcat.

Old Z/28 came on 60TW R-compound tires. Put the same tires on the Mustang...

Javelin wrote:

NickD wrote: In reply to roninsoldier83: I noticed the part where the GT350, with it's crazy flat-plane DOHC, 32V V8 and GM-derived magnetic ride suspension, still lost to the old Z/28. If/when GM builds a 6th-gen Z/28, it oughta be a real cooker. Note that the the V6 1LE Camaro was only a second slower than the Hellcat.

Old Z/28 came on 60TW R-compound tires. Put the same tires on the Mustang...

Seeing as how the Z/28 was Ford's performance bogey for the GT350R, maybe Ford should have put 60TW tires on the Mustang.

jstein77 wrote:

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: Tesla.. ohh man.. How they stunk it up.

It's a 5000+ lb. 4-door luxury car that just happens to be really fast for a 1/4 of a mile, but it was never intended for road course work. That doesn't mean it isn't a great car - it is.

Its not even in the top ten for "heaviest metal lapped", which means to me it is less than 4313...

Drove a 95 z28 as a dd for 9 years. I like the new Camaro's mechanicals but the cars are ugly inside and out. Also, the lightning laps are interesting but as an enthusiast there's more than numbers that interest me. I think I saw a quote from a Ford guy that they weren't competing with the Camaro.

I quit reading that rag a long time ago. About the time the wadded up the MX-5 at Nelson Ledges while I was crewing for an ITA Neon team. They pretty much hit everything on track except a corner station.

With that said... I do enjoy this article. It's an amazing time to be into cars that turn that's for sure.

So, you can still buy a brand new leftover 2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z-06 from a showroom. Google says mid-60ks would get 'er done now that the '17s are out.

From the historical lap times page it's 4th over all, including this year's finishers... faster than the '16 and '17 vettes tested too. Faster than pretty much everything except a Lexus concept car, a Viper ACR and a Porsche 918.

4th overall, LL3, 2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z06, 2:44.6 (read: smokin')

Making it the performance bargain of the century thus far at roughly the same price as the 24th place Shelby listed above.

Z28 is still a performance bargain and would not kick it out of bed for eating crackers. Still cannot see out of it or fit with a helmet.

Got to say it "suck it Ferrari".

Sincerely Dodge.

The Viper was amazing; it's a shame FCA is squashing it.