Car styling and nationality

The thread about the new Civic Type-R got me thinking that the Japanese just don't seem to know how to design attractive cars. In fact, when they try, they seem to go so far to the extreme that they are unattractive (enter the Predator Grill). 

Yes I know, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. but I think most of us here would agree on attractive vs unattractive cars. I bet the bell-curve would have pretty steep sides.  

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to offend. I don't mean for anything to come off derogatory at all.

Japanese: It seems that the Japanese are fine at creating a package out of sheet metal, rubber/plastic, and glass that can hold all the bits in place and make a fine automobile. But they just aren't good at doing it with style. There are exceptional standouts here: the NSX is and will always be a handsome car. The 2nd gen MR2 is gorgeous, if not 308-derived. The SVX is awesome (designed by an Italian). I'm sure there are others, and I look forward to your proof (pics please).  

Chinese: They aren't styling yet. At this point they are still blatantly stealing designs from others. 

Italians: They seems to create a dead-sexy design and figure out how to cram the mechanicals in to fit. Even every day Italian cars typically look great. There are exceptional examples of ugly Italian cars, like the Fiat Multipla.

British: The British are similar to the Japanese, but they seem more grounded, maybe more confident in their styling language. I think this confidence, and history, make for some handsome cars that age well. 

German: The Germans don't style cars, and you must like it! But even their staid styling can produce some great looking cars. The Corrado is a car that, even at 25 years out of production is a great looking car. 

Just a thought. 

Peter Egan did a Side Glances column about this years ago. I remember that French cars look like fish and British cars look like hats. I don't know if it's online anywhere.

One thought I read a while back is that the Japanese, living in higher density cities than average, never really get to see a whole car in its entirety but instead see glimpses in traffic. So they pack them with details. I don't know if there's any truth to that or it's just some pre-internet rando.

The Brits always seem to have just a bit of awkwardness - or a lot of it. Sometimes they get lucky, but there are more derpy looking British cars than attractive ones.

In reply to DrBoost :

Someone was telling me that Japanese cars look incredibly fugly because they are trying to sell in China, and the Chinese market doesn't yet have a sense of style refinement, as long as it is different looking it is good because all they care about is new.

Similar story about a group of Chinese businessmen ogling a new $2mil Ferrari while ignoring the $50mil vintage Ferrari in the next room, because to them it was just a worthless old car.

I fully understand that this is how Europeans probably feel about Americans with respect to valuing history and art 

Keith Tanner said:

 

One thought I read a while back is that the Japanese, living in higher density cities than average, never really get to see a whole car in its entirety but instead see glimpses in traffic. So they pack them with details. I don't know if there's any truth to that or it's just some pre-internet rando.

 

That is not unlike something I read many years ago. The thought was Japanese design for cars such as Datsun 710 and 810, the late 70s Corolla, and Mazda RX2, RX3 conveyed motion. The design changed to a more international look in the 80s and 90s, and has now changed to a more movement while stationary.

Are we talking current style or overall?

Styling seems to be going downhill for all at manufacturers post 2000. As aerodynamics and "safety" requirements become more strict styling takes a hit. There is more science and far less art and passion. Science isn't always pretty and customers seem more and more focused on in car gadgets than what the outside loks like. 

I'll take boring over ugly, but wow, there is a lot of ugly out there. The trend of giant grills and huge emblems has got to stop!

I think the current Mazdas are attractive. 2005ish-2010 era too. They got a bit awkward for a while there in between.

In reply to Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) :

I am pretty sure that nobody gives a care about aerodynamics anymore, from a styling perspective.  I remember jellybean Tauruses and Sierras and the rest of the ultra smoothed Fords from the mid-80s onward.  Now everything has weird E36 M3 sticking out everywhere and front ends designed by looking at pictures of barn doors.

Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to DrBoost :

 

The very definition of the exception makes the rule haha. Stunning. 

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) :

I am pretty sure that nobody gives a care about aerodynamics anymore, from a styling perspective.  I remember jellybean Tauruses and Sierras and the rest of the ultra smoothed Fords from the mid-80s onward.  Now everything has weird E36 M3 sticking out everywhere and front ends designed by looking at pictures of barn doors.

I think we've learned how to make cars aerodynamic despite all the weird things. And some of those weird things have interesting effects on things like vortices. But yeah, the market doesn't reward extreme efficiency and the engines are so good now we can afford to mess up the aero a bit for style. The exception here is EVs where efficiency is still paramount and you can definitely see that in their design.

Japan has made a lot of beautiful cars beyond the ones already mentioned.

Also I think the current Mazda 3 hatch is the best looking mass market car that you can buy new.

I mean it isn't competing with Italy or Britian but Japan has created a lot of good looking cars (also a lot of really funky ones).

Japanese - made a handful of really good looking cars (240Z, Toyota 2000GT, last gen RX7) and a horde of indifferent or even strange looking vehicles.

Italian - range from probably the best looking cars ever made (Ferrari, Lambo, Maserati) to some of the stranger creations (not talking about prototypes or one off design exercises, some of which would be useful for scaring kids and dogs on Hallowe'en, but actual production models).

French - seem to excell at making some truly weird cars with truly weird controls. You'd know what I mean the first time you have to manipulez le champignon in a Citroen to slow down.

British - some of the best, ever - Jag XKE and D type, several Astons, in a sea of stodge - TR7, small British sedans etc.

Germans - how dare we question the utility of the cars of the Fatherland?  I like some - 300 SL, early Audis, Opel GT (although Corvette should have sued), but find others rather bizarre - prewar Auto Union racers, several older Porsche models, and the Trabant.

i find the L110 Cosmo to be spectacularly ugly.

Lots of Japanese cars are good looking, apart from the examples already mentioned I'd add the new Supra and Gen1/2 Toyobarus as recent examples of good styling. Also a lot of late '80s - early '00s "golden age" Japanese cars - Subaru XT, AE86/AE92/AE111 coupes, all the MR2s, GC Impreza, "pignose" GD Impreza, Mitsu Starion, Evos, Colt, Nissan R32 GTR, Pulsar, Toyota Serah, Mazda MX3/Autozam AZ3, AZ1...Japanese styling has reached an ebb recently but it's not the historical norm by any means.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Someone was telling me that Japanese cars look incredibly fugly because they are trying to sell in China, and the Chinese market doesn't yet have a sense of style refinement, as long as it is different looking it is good because all they care about is new.

This, this is directly responsible for the Lexus predator grille among other highly questionable styling decisions over the last 10~15 years.

I'm a Japanese car guy and they've made plenty of good looking cars as well as fantastic looking motorcycles. The current batch do rather look like cuttlefish or other sea creatures; for some people that's there charm.

Car design seems to go in waves; whether it's huge tail fins or the Predator grill. 

93EXCivic said:

Japan has made a lot of beautiful cars beyond the ones already mentioned.

Also I think the current Mazda 3 hatch is the best looking mass market car that you can buy new.

 

I mean it isn't competing with Italy or Britian but Japan has created a lot of good looking cars (also a lot of really funky ones).

Most of those classic Japanese cars look strikingly similar to other cars of the era. And I'm pretty sure the Japanese cars were second to market. Meaning they were doing what the Chinese are doing now, largely stealing design because they don't have it within themselves?

I don't know how to chop up a quote like I used to. So I'll just go from the top down:
The cosmo is ugly on a bad day, unattractive on a good day. It's cool, don't get me wrong, but pretty it aint.
The Datsun is a mix of MG and Aston Martin
The GTR looks sweet. Great design. A little Mopar in the grill, but it's awesome. 
The RX3 is a little pinto, a little nova, but pulls if off decently. Not original though. 
The white one is a toyota, right? Looks good. A little Maserati Merak and Mustang in there, but it's a good looking car. 
The Toyota 2000Gt is the best Japanese e-type ever
The Miata has grown from a legetimate homage to the MG to a car in it's own right with it's own styling. Kudos to Mazda. 

Those are my opinions. Take them for what they are worth....absolutely nothing. 

American and Korean cars were noticeably absent from the original post....

The thing about this topic is it's largely subjective. - what one person thinks is beautiful, another finds ugly.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

I fully understand that this is how Everybody probably feels about Americans with respect to pretty much everything

FTFY

I've said in the past that the Japanese are better than anybody at desigining cars that don't (aesthetically) age well

There seems to be an Italian rule that whatever you do, making a car look boring is not acceptable. It either needs to look good or look hideous, but it can't be bland.

Grille.

More grille.

Grilles are what ALL consumers want.

GRILLES!!!

stuart in mn said:

American and Korean cars were noticeably absent from the original post....

The thing about this topic is it's largely subjective. - what one person thinks is beautiful, another finds ugly.

It's funny, but that wasn't intentional. I meant to mention American cars, but Korean cars are almost devoid of style. 
American cars: American stylists seem to be pretty low key. Most of todays good looking American cars are copies of 69-year old cars.  
Korean cars are vanilla ice cream. Some are french vanilla, but still vanilla. 

I would say all gens are good looking, although the second gen seems to be an almost copy of the 928

In reply to aircooled :

The third generation car is a soap-bar-smoothening of the first generation.  They share the same taillight setup, the way the greenhouse tapers in the hatch area to leave a flat space in the back at the beltline.

I still strongly see the 1st generation as a soap-bar-smoothening of the C3.  The greenhouses look almost identical, it just doesn't have the round taillights or the exaggerated Coke bottle effect.

Why haven't we discussed the Russian styling yet? 

I mean, the gaz sedan....