I'm feeling kinda jaded right now at how a lot of cars at the sub-$4k budget require some money to replace crap problems
What are some vehicles that are fun to drive and modify without having poor geometry? Powertrains that don't require bulletproofing?
Honda Civic
Miata
MR2
Anything not from Europe
2.0L Mk4 Golf - most will laugh, but it has been a great car.
what's your goal for the car? I think it is good to remember that most of these 'problems' are more problems with us than problems with the car (because we are a self-selecting bunch that like to optimize for one set of constraints that are generally different from what the manufacturer was constrained by, and we can't seem to leave well enough alone).
Bottom line is that nobody cares that the rear suspension geometry of an RSX "sucks" when they are slinging said RSX through the mud at a rallyx.
A car that runs and drives is infinitely more fun that one that doesn't. All vehicles (except maybe the British ones) arrive from the factory in running and driving condition. Get a vehicle that you like and get it back to great running and driving condition. You'll be surprised how good it is. Then you can figure out with your own experience what you want to make better.
(now if I could just start taking my own advice)
Neon, Miata, C5 vette, prius.
Mazda2s are getting in that price range. Mazda3s are as well.
Dootz said:I'm feeling kinda jaded right now at how a lot of cars at the sub-$4k budget require some money to replace crap problems
What are some vehicles that are fun to drive and modify without having poor geometry? Powertrains that don't require bulletproofing?
First mistake is expecting a car that's under $4000 to not require you to fix any crap problems. Even if they came from the factory bulletproof, E36 M3 wears down and will have crap problems.
Yes, I know. But I don't champion these because I own one. I bought one because I did research and they are pretty dang bulletproof.
I wouldn't know so much about modifying because once you start to modify, you throw all pretense of "OE reliability" out the window.
They're selling for sub-4k for a reason.
STM317 said:They're selling for sub-4k for a reason.
this.
bobzilla said:STM317 said:They're selling for sub-4k for a reason.
this.
Yeah. My $3900 Miata needed some bent suspension part replaced (didn't learn about those until I tried to align it) and rotors and calipers and pads replaced (had been sitting for a least a year in a garage) and some water leaks fixed and a timing belt (because that was an unknown). My $3600 Subaru Baja needed all the brakes replaced as well (because Subaru) and tires and then shortly afterwards it barfed a water pump.
Do what I do. 4k budget? $2800 car, 800 in repairs, 200 in comfort mods (usually radio, weatherstrip, etc) and 200 for the crap that will always break unexpectedly.
Sure, you gotta work on it, but much of the work will be preventative.
Civics get the nod, but will need bushings. However I havent seen a running neon in a decade, volvos are cheap all over cl for a reason, prius batteries are going to be near shot, and miatas are not available in good shape under 5k that I have seen. Integras seem cheaper than civics right now, and are equally reliable.
McStrut and McTwist cars are now the norm. Scions, corollas, rsx, later civics are cheap and a lca replacement solves 90% of (wear related) suspension issues. Handling is fine, and you will notice more from better tires than a 'real' suspension. That said, I am selling my scion, and all my other cars are sla/multilink now.
NickD said:bobzilla said:STM317 said:They're selling for sub-4k for a reason.
this.
Yeah. My $3900 Miata needed some bent suspension part replaced (didn't learn about those until I tried to align it) and rotors and calipers and pads replaced (had been sitting for a least a year in a garage) and some water leaks fixed and a timing belt (because that was an unknown). My $3600 Subaru Baja needed all the brakes replaced as well (because Subaru) and tires and then shortly afterwards it barfed a water pump.
My $4k C10 has (so far) needed $6k in repairs, upgrades and stuff.
Honestly, I'm not sure there's many cars, in any price range, that don't have at least one common issue that needs attention. Certainly you're going to be hard pressed to find something under $4k that isn't "cheap for a reason" ...and that's even if you're not counting "painfully slow" as an issue that needs fixing.
mtn said:Miata
Tell that to my bank account
A $300 BMW with $3700 invested toward fixing factory flaws? Seriously...new cars are so expensive that $4k is beater territory and anything fun will be well-worn. I'd say the best bet is to shop fun cars and wait for one that's been enthusiast owned, with all of that work done. I know they're out there because I'm usually on the selling end of that equation. 
_ said:mtn said:Miata
Tell that to my bank account
Explain.
I think people are confusing "factory flaws" with maintenance and repair.
There's a difference between, say, having to do brakes and ball joints and stuff, and having to shore up the rear suspension because the mounting points on the chassis tend tp crack and someone thought mounting the diff in single-shear was a good idea.
Suzuki SX4's are probably worth considering based on the extremely basic requirements.
In reply to Knurled. :
True, but a lot of stuff can be improved via that maintenance too. If suspension bushings are shot, maybe there's an aftermarket control arm with better geometry or a thicker sway bar that can be installed. If the brake calipers are seized, then it might make sense to look for upgrades. If the auto trans is slipping that can be a good excuse to do the manual swap that you've wanted. The really desirable cars with very few problem areas never get near the 4K ballpark so you have to do the best you can with what you've got available.
There is no perfect vehicle. They all have compromises, especially by the time they've put enough years and miles into the rear view mirror to sell for <4K. But if you buy the right cheap car, you might be able to mitigate some of the factory weaknesses fairly easily.
Toyota Corolla. Preferably nummi era.
In reply to STM317 :
That is why I pointed that car out. Brembo four piston calipers at all four corners means no sticking caliper issues, heavily galvanized body and aluminum subframes/arms/uprights means no rust issues. (The primary reasons I wanted one, I hate sliding calipers with a passion and I am sick of rust.) The whiteblock engine is a thoroughly durable piece that just needs oil changes and the occasional timing belt (NOT a berking chain to eat guides and tensioners) and PCV service. The 5 speed automatic is kind of near its limits and the 6 speed manual apparently has clutch hydraulics issues, but the 6 speed auto is stout and, if you get an '07 model, has the updated valvebody from the factory. And so on and such as.
No real '''vehicular inadequacies" aside from Volvo opting to not locate the angle gear by anything but its splines, which causes wear. This is very easily addressed compared to the same issue on BMWs or Cadillacs.
So why are they cheap? They weren't all that expensive when new, and they aren't wagons. A nice wagon is a $15k+ car, sedan not so much.
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