I'm considering picking up a Celica XX (2g Supra) because I love old Toyotas, these are really berkeleying pretty and I need a little more RWD in my life. I was wondering what you all think of them.
Here are the answers I'd like to hear:
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Man, these are such reliable cars! They have none of the head gasket nonsense associated with the MKIII Supras even though it's basically the same engine.
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The 5m is really tough, but has kind of a crappy flowing head. It loves boost, but it sure is slow to spool up. It would make a great guinea pig for a guy looking to develop a compressed air based anti-lag system, if only such a person existed.
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The suspension, particularly the semi-trailing arm rear setup, isn't fundamentally terrible. The appalling levels of squat and squish I saw in 1983 magazine test videos are easily dialed out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-jWW4rhgLE
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Lots of parts from other sporty Toyotas bolt right on!
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The brakes are super good! Even if 1983 brakes aren't enough for track days and hill climbs, Toyota thoughtfully made the hubs universally adaptable for every rotor and caliper ever made by man!
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You can slap on 335/35/18s front and rear and have zero rubbing issues!
Man, these are such reliable cars! They have none of the head gasket nonsense associated with the MKIII Supras even though it's basically the same engine.
The 5m is really tough, but has kind of a crappy flowing head. It loves boost, but it sure is slow to spool up. It would make a great guinea pig for a guy looking to develop a compressed air based anti-lag system, if only such a person existed.
The suspension, particularly the semi-trailing arm rear setup, isn't fundamentally terrible. The appalling levels of squat and squish I saw in 1983 magazine test videos are easily dialed out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-jWW4rhgLE
Lots of parts from other sporty Toyotas bolt right on!
The brakes are super good! Even if 1983 brakes aren't enough for track days and hill climbs, Toyota thoughtfully made the hubs universally adaptable for every rotor and caliper ever made by man!
You can slap on 335/35/18s front and rear and have zero rubbing issues!
I've had two, and know a lot about them.
The 5M is insanely easy to DIY boost, so there's that. Tough motor but they all seem to leak/burn oil to some extent, valve stem seals are the normal culprit. Non-interference too which is a plus. It makes more sense to build a 6M and get an extra displacement if you want to stay "original" but the 7M truly is a better engine in a lot of ways, and they are barely related to the 5M.
The stock brakes are undersized for any kind of performance driving and there is no clear/easy bolt-on upgrade. Sorry.
Also there were no other "sporty" cars Toyota built that were as large or heavy as the Supra, so most parts are unique. They don't even make performance shocks for them anymore; there are DIY hacks to make other stuff work but it's certainly not "bolt on and go."
I hope you are joking about the 335s in front because that ain't gonna happen. Keep in mind these cars came stock with 205-series tires on 14" wheels, and that was a lot of goddamn tire at the time. I converted to 16x8" wheels with 225s on mine and there was not a whole lot of room left. And sorry, but the rear suspension sucks. Any kind of lowering causes the rear negative camber to skyrocket, so you have to fabricate modified control arms to make the rear suspension work right.
They are cool cars and can certainly be made better, but the aftermarket mostly dried up for them 10-15 years ago. There is some enthusiasm left for them and you can make them crazy, but the platform is basically late 70's Toyota RWD and the parts supply is waning fast. Oh, and they all rust pretty bad too, particularly under the flares. They all seem to have rear differential problems at some point too. I would have another but it would be a $10k project to build it "right." These were made as a sporty GT car, not a sports car, and they need a lot of work to serve that purpose. Likely has a lot to do with the comparatively small fan base as opposed to something like the 4AG cars.
Long story short Toyota learned a lot of lessons with the Mk2 and applied those to the Mk3, which is why they are generally more desirable cars.
It's pretty, and an LS would be cool. That is all I know about them.
Thanks for the info. I was definitely kidding about the tires, btw.
About the rear suspension, I noticed that the subframe seems very modular. It makes me wonder if a Celica's stick axle setup might not bolt in.
I'm guessing not much MKIII stuff bolts on? No luck on brakes or differentials?
In reply to DaewooOfDeath:
The Mk3 front and rear suspension was completely redesigned, along with the brakes...sadly, quite literally everything is different and incompatible. Engineering-wise, the Mk2 is more like a late 70's car and the Mk3 is more of an early 90's car. The hot ticket for the Mk2 used to be Cressida bits that are now super hard to find; these days guys go through the trouble of converting to Z32 300ZX brakes and either use weird E36 M3 like Mazda rotors to make it work or just swap from the factory 4x114.3 wheels to a 5x114.3 setup on all four corners.
As far as the rear the Mk3 setup is very different, no part of it will fit under the Mk2. Shame because they have much stronger diffs, but luckily there are still a few great aftermarket units and performance rebuilders out there for the Mk2. Also IIRC you cannot swap to the Celica stick axle, the rear floor is stamped differently. If you know anybody who can weld worth a damn, it really is easiest just to do the rear camber mod.
The site I linked above (Raptor Racing) and CelicaSupra.com are great places to poke around if you're seriously interested in the Mk2.
5m is awesome. 1uz is better. Raptor racing is your friend for getting that IRS roll center dialed in. It was designed by lotus... Can't be that bad. Take it from a mk3 Celica owner. It's a wise move.
Duke
MegaDork
9/26/15 2:53 p.m.
Rust. Rust, rust rust, rustrustrust. R - U - S - T.
They tend to rust pretty catastrophically. At least around here.
Love 80s Toyotas....
5M does not have head issue associated with 7M engines.
Not sure how many suspension parts are actually out there....??????
I seem to remember Supra "P" model(flairs) came with 225/60/14, "L" models(no flairs) came with 205s - not sure what will fit, but doubt 335......
They can tend to have diff whine
A few have some weird kind of off gassing of the heating/defroster system... windshield gets this odd haze, cleans up, but re-appears.
Cylinder head can and will respond to headwork
In reply to oldeskewltoy:
Ahem. I JUST SAID raptor racing has the hook up for suspension on these. And what they don't have, techno toy tuning has in bulk. And if that's too much for you, visit us over at celicasupra.com and we will show you how to get race quality suspension for about 400$ all said and done. That includes adjustable coilovers, adjustable struts, and bushings. From there it's t3 for arms, sways, and RCA's.
I really love those cars, but I remember looking at a couple of used 1983's in the summer of 1985 and the trailing edge of the rear hatches were already starting to rust through. I honestly can't believe that there are any left at this point.
Hatches are easily repaired.
parker
Reader
9/27/15 11:47 a.m.
Cows actually do have horns
Trackmouse wrote:
In reply to oldeskewltoy:
Ahem. I JUST SAID raptor racing has the hook up for suspension on these. And what they don't have, techno toy tuning has in bulk. And if that's too much for you, visit us over at celicasupra.com and we will show you how to get race quality suspension for about 400$ all said and done. That includes adjustable coilovers, adjustable struts, and bushings. From there it's t3 for arms, sways, and RCA's.
wind it back a bit DUDE..... I just read in another thread how you felt all jumped on... I mention I'm unsure of what's out there... and you get huffy because I don't infer that fixing just the role center means they have every berkeleying thing ever berkeleying made?????
DUDE... if you want respect and not to be treated as an arse-hat... maybe you should begin @ the mirror
In reply to oldeskewltoy:
I get that you're a respected and established member here. I have an opinion. I can voice that. Isnt America great? Also, don't get so butt hurt. You took My sarcasm far harder than it should've been, as well, It's not my fault you can't read.
This was going along really well until people started responding and offering information.
Woody wrote:
I really love those cars, but I remember looking at a couple of used 1983's in the summer of 1985 and the trailing edge of the rear hatches were already starting to rust through. I honestly can't believe that there are any left at this point.
There is a pristine looking one I see near my house, I couldn't believe it either. All I have seen are ratty rusted ones for years.
In reply to nepa03focus:
What region are you in? Some of our Celica members in the Midwest and south say the same. But the PNW, despite crazy amounts of rain, provides some relatively salvageable chassis.
Nothing to add to this other than I would get one just because they are cool. I mean they have pop up headlights that right there ups the cool factor to 11.. .. . .. I am showing my age aren't I. ...
I'm near wilkes barre pa, the person must work or live at a pizza place I go by frequently. It is always there
nepa03focus wrote:
I'm near wilkes barre pa, the person must work or live at a pizza place I go by frequently. It is always there
East coast... my wife had hers back when we lived in the Poconos... the rear hatch was very bad... and with Pa inspection (1" hole fails inspection), I had to patch it a few times to keep it "legal".
mike
New Reader
9/28/15 10:17 a.m.
Japanese Classics LLC
Just Arrived: 1990 Toyota Supra "Twin Turbo R" - 1JZ-GTE, R154 5sp M/T, Bilstein suspension, Recaro seats, Cold A/C, 100% Stock.
https://www.facebook.com/JapaneseClassicsLLC/photos/a.503841826381117.1073741838.473888866043080
Ugh. About twice a year i get a bee in the bonnet over these things, and successfully bring myself to ignore them again.
And now this thread has brought it to the 4th time this year...
