Challenge car Safety - we should talk about it.

I learned to be a much better jerk over on the Locost and Metalworking forums, where someone will say "I'm going to weld on the tubes this way and it'll be fine", and it isn't. Silence condones approval and someone reading the thread will assume it's okay to do since no one said otherwise. But if an A-hole like me says it's bad it might save others - at the expense of then reading "Gee, I come here to share and you jump all over me with negative comments." (A near-verbatim reply I've actually received.) But I digress, sort of. The point being, every unsafe car that's let through is an unspoken message of "This is acceptable" to others.

I know I was a first timer at this event. I had no delusions our car was going to be competitive in any of the three categories. We ran out of time for a variety of reasons but we were determined to make this event just for the experience.

And it was a GREAT EXPERIENCE.

One of the most rewarding of those was to universal sense that, though it was a competition, everyone wanted to see their fellow competitors do well. In that vein I lent my auto cross tires to someone I had never met to improve their times. In hindsight that may not have been fair to others they beat as a result.

But the very spirit of the event makes people hesitant to file a formal protest on any issue. What if we had an anonymous procedure where a competitor could file a request for an 'safety inquiry request' for the scrutineeers to take a second look at something they may have missed? And if the problem is egregious enough they could dq for a particular event. I.e., they may be ok for ax but not drags.

Just a thought

In reply to Ovid_and_Flem:

Loaning tires is acceptable. Both budgets must reflect the value of the tires/ wheels.

If not, the other car may have gone over budget, and should have been running exhibition only.

I declined to protest because the infractions were blatantly obvious to anyone who looked at the car. Seeing as the judges looked at the car in question for much more time than I did, and GRM staff had already photographed it, I presumed that the points of contention were seen and acceptable.

That is the message that was sent out anyway.

My car was inspected by a NHRA Inspector and is drag race legal to 8.5 seconds. As many saw we had an issue with handling at the top end and as soon as we identified the issue and realized we did not have the $1.39 bushing we stopped running the car. It seemed the safer choice.

aussiesmg wrote: I declined to protest because the infractions were blatantly obvious to anyone who looked at the car. Seeing as the judges looked at the car in question for much more time than I did, and GRM staff had already photographed it, I presumed that the points of contention were seen and acceptable.

But that's exactly my point regarding the dangers of letting such things go. Okay, YOU know what's safe but said yourself that the dangers were (apparently) seen by the judges and found acceptable. A newbie OTOH may reasonably conclude that he can show up next year in a car having those same (unsafe) features and have no idea they're a big problem.

Seriously just add a third score for safety and proper engineering. If you want to win, people will step up the game.

wearymicrobe wrote: Seriously just add a third score for safety and proper engineering. If you want to win, people will step up the game.

but that also has the reverse effect of basically saying that is ok to not be safe if you arent worried about points.

Points for playing within the established safety rules doesn't work.

Either they pass, or they fail. Failed cars should not run.

SVreX wrote: Points for playing within the established safety rules doesn't work. Either they pass, or they fail. Failed cars should not run.

+1

It's been a few years since I was at a challenge (helping friends in 2012), but I am hoping to make a return in 2017. I recall the cars that "looked fast" tended to get a bit more scrutiny overall. Although in 2005 and 2006, our cars got a good going over, even though they were not on the fast side. Later years(2011 and 2012) it didn't seem like the inspection was as thorough.

David S. Wallens wrote: We have been discussing car safety as well, including a more detailed pre-event inspection process. Once we're ready to make an announcement, we will (happily) share it with the rest of the world. Thanks, everyone, for the concern. It's nice to see that we're all on the same page here.

Joe Gearin wrote: Let's play nice people. I think we are all in agreement that safety is a concern, and it will be addressed. Safety is important to the survival of the Challenge, so all safety-related comments are welcome, and appreciated.

I hate to be that guy but here we are a month later and nothing has been addressed to us.

I know that I asked about protesting the car in question on safety and budget and I've heard nothing back.

I was chatting with some of the GRM guys at SEMA about this issue. I'll let them make their announcements, but there certainly has been internal discussion with plans for change.

$2017 is shaping up to be a very interesting year in the pits, that I am certain.

Stampie wrote:

David S. Wallens wrote: We have been discussing car safety as well, including a more detailed pre-event inspection process. Once we're ready to make an announcement, we will (happily) share it with the rest of the world. Thanks, everyone, for the concern. It's nice to see that we're all on the same page here.

Joe Gearin wrote: Let's play nice people. I think we are all in agreement that safety is a concern, and it will be addressed. Safety is important to the survival of the Challenge, so all safety-related comments are welcome, and appreciated.

I hate to be that guy but here we are a month later and nothing has been addressed to us. I know that I asked about protesting the car in question on safety and budget and I've heard nothing back.

Keep in mind that although the $201X Challenge (and it's competitor's concerns) are important to us, this is not the only thing on our plates. We run 5 events, publish two magazines, operate this website, and travel to numerous events throughout the year. (including SEMA from which we've just returned)

Safety concerns at the Challenge are a big deal to us, and will be addressed. Stay tuned......we appreciate your input and patience.

In reply to Joe Gearin:

Joe, I don't think Stampie was asking for a full set of rules. I think he was asking why his question was never answered about when it's too late to protest a car.

Regarding your busy schedule, I appreciate all that you do. It would still be really helpful to have a basic communication, "The rules will be released by such-and-such date".

We are working very hard to do a good job for you too.

In reply to Joe Gearin:

Changes for next year can wait. I'm wondering what was resolved as to the 2016 Challenge.

Stampie wrote: In reply to Joe Gearin: Changes for next year can wait. I'm wondering what was resolved as to the 2016 Challenge.

I am guessing that the hammer was dropped at the awards banquet.

We are currently regrouping and getting everyone back in the office after SEMA. We have also had a pretty rough month of October with a hurricane and other events that has taken us all out of the office for a while. That said, shortly after the Challenge we all sat down and had a post event meeting and addressed a lot of topics regarding this year's Challenge.

Top of the list was tech inspection and how it will be done in the future. We have some really exciting ideas that will make this process work much better and have safer cars and drivers. The other topic was the rules package that was discussed at the town hall meeting. Third was the concours and how it will be done next year. Then we were hit by and CAT3 hurricane. Shorty after that I have been working on securing the hotel and track for next year, which was finalized just this week. The next item of business is to hammer out the rules package with our team here once we get all our key people back in the office to discuss.

This will all happen in several phases. Phase one, we work out the rules package. Realistically we should have something to present to you by the hopefully by the end of next week. I will keep you posted as things progress. Next phase will be the announcement of the date, location and sponsors for next year which hopefully can be done by December 1st. There is hopefully going to be a new partner that will have the potential to bring in a lot more entries for next year in a new class. That is all I have to say on that at this time.

I know that everyone is itching to get cars, parts, etc and get your builds started, but I am saying to please give us a chance to roll this all out the right way the first time so there is no confusion and no un-necessary rules interpretation. If you have spotted a car or parts and have questions about your builds, please send me an email and I will be happy to address it. Some of you have taken advantage of that already and hopefully I was able to get you the answers you needed.

Thanks, Rick

OK let me be blunt. I'm really hoping that what happened at the $2016 Challenge isn't swept under the rug in hopes that everyone will just forget about it. A top finisher never should have been allowed to run safety wise and even after running broke budget which is the #1 rule. At this point I'll let you guys handle it as you feel best but remember how you handle it reflects on you more than the fact that it happened.

We appreciate bluntness. Here is some back: Increasing our stress levels doesn't actually help us make good decisions.

Immediately after the Challenge, we spent more than a week with our offices closed due to a hurricane. We then had 2 weeks to publish a magazine before most of our staff left for a weeklong show in Las Vegas.

Despite these demands on our staff of 12, we spent a good deal of time in discussions about what happened at the 2016 Challenge. Next week, when we once again have a full staff, we will spend more time, because we not only want to come up with some good policies here, we actually understand we need to.

We will be moving forward on this in a spirit of doing our damnedest and trusting we all want to make the event better.

Margie