Challenge parts car question

In the past there was the rule that you could only recovery half the value you paid for a parts car. I don't see this anymore. Reason I'm asking is I'm looking at buying a parts Miata for its hard top for my DD. Now if I use parts from it also for my Challenge build how do I value them? Perfect world is I pay $1000 for the parts Miata. Subtract a very fair $800 for the hard top. Sell some fenders for $200 and now any other parts are free right?

i believe the rule is you can only recover half of $2015.

my "parts car" was my original challenge build, that took a turn for the worse so it got replaced.

You can recoup:

• Up to the full purchase price of the parts car or parts deal, but no more.

• No more than half of $2015 total. ($1007.50)

As far as I remember, it's always been that way (since 2004, when the recoup rule was created).

So, in your example, your math is correct.

If, however, you pay $1200 for the parts car, you can't recoup more than $1007.50, no matter how much you sell. You would still have to keep $192.50 purchase price of the parts car in your budget.

If you bought the same parts car for $900 and sold the hardtop for $800 and the fenders for $200, you only get to recoup $900 (the purchase price of the parts car).

Or you can just budget the parts you use at a fair fmv.

Actually the rules on this have been changed.

"Budget: Net cost of the Challenge car and its preparation for presentation at the event must be equal to or less than a dollar amount equaling the year of the competition. Up to half the total budget may be recouped by selling parts originally included with or attached to the Challenge car at the time of purchase. Your purchase price of the Challenge car cannot top that year’s budget cap."

This states directly that you can only recoup from the original challenge car purchase. The only limit is recovering $1007, it no longer states you can only recover up to the purchase price of the car.

SVreX wrote: You can recoup: - Up to the full purchase price of the parts car or parts deal, but no more. - No more than half of $2015 total. ($1007.50) As far as I remember, it's always been that way (since 2004, when the recoup rule was created). So, in your example, your math is correct. If, however, you pay $1200 for the parts car, you can't recoup more than $1007.50, no matter how much you sell. You would still have to keep $192.50 purchase price of the parts car in your budget. If you bought the same parts car for $900 and sold the hardtop for $800 and the fenders for $200, you only get to recoup $900 (the purchase price of the parts car).

yes, so you can't score a $200 titleless hulk on CL and sell $1500 off it and effectively make yourself a $3315 budget for the sake of making profit.

i asked the question a few months ago, as my parts car was $900. i pulled the engine/trans/exhaust/fan and sold the roller for $900. so effectively my engine was free and i had $107.50 to recoup, which was done by scrapping the broken engine and hood from the challenge car and selling a couple unwanted bits off of it. it was deemed that everything budget wise was OK(svrex was a big help, and i trust his advice because he's been a long time competitor and this is my first year of actually getting a car complete enough to register), and that the engine was not actually worth $0, but because of the legwork i did to find the broken car to get the engine, then the willingness to deal with CL morons and wait it out to find a guy to give my purchase price back for the roller was hard work and in the spirit of the rules/game.

In reply to patgizz:

All I'm saying is that isn't what the rules say anymore. SVreX is quoting the pre $2014 rules. Unless I fail in my ability to read.

In reply to WillrunifChased:

Huh. Well THAT'S a surprise.

I wasn't actually quoting from any rules, just reiterating what has been pretty clear for more than a decade.

But I have to say, that I don't disagree with your reading. I am just not sure that is the intent.

I was at the town meeting that originally discussed these new rules, and have never heard any discussion of this the way you are interpreting it, from the staff, or any competitor.

My concern is that the current rules also say, "We do not intend to exclude any past Challenge cars with these new rules. If you believe that your past Challenge car meets the spirit of the rules but not the exact letter of the new law, contact us to discuss grandfathering in your entry." Seems like this would create a gross discrepancy between new competitors and previous ones.

WillrunifChased, I hear you, and see the same thing, but I think this is now in the realm of needing some feedback from actual GRM staff.

I emailed Rick. Hopefully, he will check in.

In reply to SVreX:

Should I prepare my negative budget miata and my protest money if Rick doesn't get the rules corrected?

I'm definitely going to be watching this closely, as if the new reading of the rules is correct there's pretty much no way my El Camino will ever meet the rules as its new block & bottom end came from a parts truck that was sold off and zeroed out on the budget (actually made money on parting it out, but couldn't take credit for more than its original purchase price).

I can't see the rules having been changed to eliminate the ability to buy and sell stuff from parts cars- it would make a LOT of cars (especially the more interesting ones that involve bizarre swaps) blow their budgets.

WillrunifChased wrote: In reply to SVreX: Should I prepare my negative budget miata and my protest money if Rick doesn't get the rules corrected?

Feel free to protest.

I'm bringing a past Challenge car.

Budget Rules: Any inside deals—parts, whole cars, trades, donations, stolen parts, etc.—must be added to the budget at fair market value. If you can’t figure out the value of a part, ask on the message board at grassrootsmotorsports.com.

Then every parts deal or parts car part used would need to be factored in at FMV.

SVreX wrote:

WillrunifChased wrote: In reply to SVreX: Should I prepare my negative budget miata and my protest money if Rick doesn't get the rules corrected?

Feel free to protest. I'm bringing a past Challenge car.

How didn't we notice this, weren't the rules the same last year?

In reply to WillrunifChased:

Yes they were.

The rules underwent a major re-write. My understanding was that the goal was primarily to simplify and clarify, not to fundamentally change the game.

It is likely (in my mind) that in the course of a major re-write, it was simply poorly worded.

But, like I said, I will wait for GRM staff to clarify.

WillrunifChased wrote:

Budget Rules: Any inside deals—parts, whole cars, trades, donations, stolen parts, etc.—must be added to the budget at fair market value. If you can’t figure out the value of a part, ask on the message board at grassrootsmotorsports.com.

Then every parts deal or parts car part used would need to be factored in at FMV.

No.

That rule is only about inside deals.

So, for example, if this:

Rules said: Up to half the total budget may be recouped by selling parts originally included with or attached to the Challenge car at the time of purchase.

Should have been this:

Did the Rules mean: Up to half the total budget may be recouped by selling parts originally included with or attached to the Challenge car or parts deal at the time of purchase.

It would totally change the meaning.

We are reviewing the rules and will let you guys know soon.

Thanks, Rick!

I sure do know how to stir up a pot of E36 M3. Sorry that a simple question turned into so much.

Stampie

In reply to Stampie:

Nah, I think it is a good thing.

Lots of us have been playing this game for so long, that we think we know the rules. Sometimes it takes a fresh set of eyes to recognize things.

I appreciate your input.

Okay, here's a rules clarification. They will be updated shortly.

Before:

Budget:
Net cost of the Challenge car and its preparation for presentation at the event must be equal to or less than a dollar amount equaling the year of the competition. Up to half the total budget may be recouped by selling parts originally included with or attached to the Challenge car at the time of purchase. Your purchase price of the Challenge car cannot top that year’s budget cap.

In English, what does this mean?
For 2014, the budget cap is $2014.
For 2014, the most you can recoup through parts sales is $1007.
For 2014, the max you can initially pay for a Challenge car is $2014.

After:

Budget:
Net cost of the Challenge car and its preparation for presentation at the event must be equal to or less than a dollar amount equaling the year of the competition. Your purchase price of the Challenge car cannot top that year’s budget cap. Up to half the total budget may be recouped by selling parts originally included with or attached to the Challenge car, related parts car(s), or related parts packages at the time of purchase. You may not factor gains or losses made from buying, selling, or trading unrelated parts into your budget.

In English, what does this mean?
For 2014, the budget cap is $2014.
For 2014, the most you can recoup through parts sales is $1007.
For 2014, the max you can initially pay for a Challenge car is $2014.
If you buy a part for $40, decide it won’t work, then resell that part for $50, you may not recoup $10.
If you buy an engine for $100, use the heads on your Challenge car, then resell the rest of the engine for $80, you may recoup $80, assuming your build has not already hit the recoup limit.

On the subject of past Challenge cars:

By default, all past Challenge cars will be allowed to compete for exhibition purposes, assuming they are safe and have not been significantly modified since the Challenge they competed in. If they meet the current year's rules, they will automatically be allowed to compete for points against current Challenge cars.

If your car does not meet the current year's rules, and has not been significantly modified since the Challenge it competed in, you must discuss your entry with the GRM staff prior to the event in order to be allowed to compete for points. Approval will be on a case-by-case basis, and GRM reserves the right to withdraw approval at any point before, during, or after the event.

Long story short: Cages are no longer free, but tires now are, so cars built after the recap rule are still roughly comparable. We won't be allowing cars that clearly have the upper hand to compete for points, but they will still be allowed to have fun. Don't bring some ringer car from 2003 and expect to loophole your way to an overall victory, because that wouldn't be fun (and fun is what the event is about).

In reply to Tom Suddard:

Thanks, Tom!

Hey, just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting I intended to dance through a loophole with a previous Challenge car. I was poking fun at WillrunifChased, that's all. Our car will meet all of this year's rules, and the fact that it is a previous Challenger is irrelevant.

In reply to Tom Suddard:

Now I really want a copy of the issue with the 2003 challenge cars.