Challenge priced car hauler?

Here's the brief:

I'm looking into towing a ~2750 pound FRS. Trailer will probably be a standard tandem axle 7k rated with single brake(necessary?). I'd like lightweight aluminum but all in all I'd like to buy the trailer and car hauler at $5k including any needed repairs for the hauler. I know that's a tall order. I think I can get there even buying a new trailer. Keyword is think. Trailers are priced high used and new is about the same from what I can tell. This market is crazy. Good news is around Christmas time I'll be in the slashed prices market.

My thoughts are Econoline with 5.4 or bigger. I like the idea of being able to haul parts that are enclosed, plus be able to sleep in the van at tracks that allow it. I have seen the GRM articles on their project van, and it seems like they were happy with it overall. Biggest issue is finding one that isn't completely destroyed or have trans issues, but there does seem to be a good supply of well taken care of church vans. There's a couple for $500 with bad trans, but others still going for less than $3k and they look like someone cared for them. The maintenance vans at this point look like they were in a couple tornadoes. Any years or combos to shy away from?

Another consideration is our 13 Santa Fe 2.0t Sport. BRAND new engine after the rod bearings went bye bye a week after buying it with 109k miles on the clock. Hyundai took care of us on it, so now I've got another 109k miles before that happens again right? Anyway, towing capacity is rated at 3500. I think pulling 4-6 hours on flat land may not be too terrible, but then if I am carrying spares we are adding in more weight. I would love to just use the Santa Fe, but am I barking up the wrong tree? If I don't have to buy a van or other hauler then I can buy a nice fancy lightweight aluminum trailer to help reduce the weight. Also this would just be 5-6 weekends out of the year for the most part and only for next year. If I can hold off another year I'll have more play money for a proper hauler.

What would Jeebus do?

Another alternative is to just tow a tire trailer behind the FRS for next season and save up for a better scenario. Unfortunately if things go wrong I still have to drive the car home. Would be nice to not have to worry about that.

I set our van (Odysssey) up to tow my 2k lb race car and small open trailer (3400lb total wt) and other than being very scared for the transmission life, it towed OK with the weight distribution setup and getting the tounge weight spot on. Putting dirty stuff in the kid/fam hauler was more stressful than I wanted to deal with, and I could buy another vehicle cheaper than to put another trans in the fan. I started shopping pickups and stumbled onto a well used F250, and it was at least 10x better to tow/haul with with the little trailer and it pulls my current trailer (24' enclosed) like it's nearly nothing. My bit of advice is think about your long term plan as well, I think a 3/4 or 1T van would do you well and be easier to deal with than the stress on the fam car and you don't have to worry so much about a lightweight trailer and have plenty of room for storage, spares, etc. 

5.4s don't feel great even in the lightest things they come in. For some reason my experience has been that the 6.8 v10s feel more than 1.4L better, so i'd get the v10 every time if i had the chance. They don't really have any new or more expensive issues than the 5.4s either, just two more cylinders worth of the same problems. I'm a pretty big fan of the trans that's hooked to them although i think people towing with these old 4 spds should get in the habit of manually controlling the 3-4 shift with the shifter/button and gas pedal accordingly so that they're not constantly happening under almost all 450lbft of peak torque while hooked to 10k lbs. Letting that thing hunt back and forth 3-4-3-4-3-4 with 400+lb fts going across it every time is what's going to wreck it more than anything else. 

I honestly can't see towing a tandem axle car trailer with a Santa Fe being comfortable. I did a lot of car towing on a dolley with <4000lb tow vehicles with not much power, but it works because the dolley is less than half the weight and puts almost NO tongue weight on the tow vehicle. Times i've tried full 16-20ft car hauler trailers on smaller tow vehicles, it has been uncomfortable. I've never used a weight distributing hitch when doing this and im sure it would help, but you might even call it turd polishing compared to buying  a  way bigger tow vehicle if you're already willing to do that anyway. A weight distributing hitch will help on almost anything so if you're willing to buy one you might try it on your Santa Fe and if you don't like the experience, then also use it on the bigger tow vehicle you buy next.

My Cayenne is rated to tow 5000 without weight distributing, 7700 with weight distributing. I have a 4500-5000lb travel trailer im fixing up to use, and even though it barely fits in the first number im planning to use a weight distributing setup with it anyway. 

I think even after 3-ish years of ownership and maintenance/fixing E36 M3 on the truck, buying the trailer, rebuilding the suspension and completely rewiring it I can't be anywhere near that $5k budget and that includes purchase price of the truck. I say that to encourage you that I think your budget is definitely doable. 

Things I've given up with my setup would include not being comfortable towing a fully loaded trailer above say 65 in the absolute BEST scenario (I'm usually at 60 or under) and no trailer brakes. I'm towing a ~2100 lb car in the E21 and the trailer is quite light for what it is but I've never really felt like the 4 wheel drums weren't enough. I'll certainly eventually want to at least do discs up front. Until I bought this trailer though, I was pulling a much heavier open trailer with no trailer brakes and it was still fine. 

All this said, I don't have a ton of towing experience but I do know that the bigger/beefier the tow vehicle, the happier you'll be. I've been scenarios where, sure, the tow rating probably isn't overreached but feeling the tug and pull and movement of a loaded trailer behind you is never comfortable. I have a feeling you'd end up there with the Santa Fe. Maybe try it with a rented trailer and see how it feels? The heavy-as-berkeley U-haul trailer will certainly stress the system with the FRS loaded. Pack the Santa Fe full of whatever spares/tools you expect to need and try it out locally. If that feels OK then working your way down to a lighter trailer may be OK and could be a workable stopgap.

In reply to Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) :

What gen F250 you got and what engine config? I've been eyeballing those as well. My uncle had a fleet of Powerstroke extended cab 4x4s but they always seemed to have trans issues.

In reply to Vigo (Forum Supporter) :

Hmmm. I've seen a couple of the Tritons pop up, but don't recall if the price was within range.

In reply to AxeHealey :

Not a bad idea on testing a loaded trailer as it sits. I've got access to two different trailers I can test that would be similar in weight to one I would buy. My gut says don't bother, but my wallet says give it a go. As for tow vehicle I would like it to be comfortable(ish), safe, A/c, and reasonably reliable. The ability to camp in it can be a big plus too which is why I'm leaning towards van.

The Sante Fe is fwd right? I wouldn't like towing a car trailer with a car behind something like that. 

Good news is, you should be able to find a trailer for $2500 to $3000 new or used that can fit a frs. I sold my 20ft trailer that was a few years old for almost what I bought it for. A 16ft would be even cheaper. 

For the vehicle, i don't know where you're located but around here you can slide into a running v10 excursion or 5.3 GM SUV for 3k or under. 

The Santa Fe is going to be near maxed out; the towing capacity is such that you'd need a 750lb trailer. Some of the single axle aluminum trailers would just make that weight but I think it's just a bit borderline.

The operative question is how far are you traveling for events? If it's only 100-150 miles I'd get a little trailer for the FRS.

I have an E250 Campervan (7180lbs) with a 5.8 and it tows OK, yes I'm down to 45mph on 7% grades. I just manually hold it in 2nd grade on steep grades as I don't like the trans hunting up and down. I'm towing 2400lbs with it, so the small motor is dragging 9500lbs up these hills. It will maintain 60-65 on flat ground without issue.

The main two tracks will be anywhere from 150-250 miles but a couple others in the 330-380 mile range.

My biggest concern is getting WAY over my initial budget to get the most ideal setup. I think there is something out there that fits my needs, just got to wait and see what pops up.

No personal experience but a friend did a couple of years with an ex-construction truck GMT400 (it's actually currently for sale if you're anywhere near ohio) and an open trailer towing a 3200lb camaro. He splurged on a fancy aluminum trailer, but before he got that did a couple of trips borrowing another friend's crappy old steel/wood trailer and had no issues. His standards are....low, but he said it had no real issues other than not liking to go up hills quickly or get much over 10mpg. I think you could replicate that setup with a cheap steel trailer and be at about the same total weight for at least in the neighborhood of $5k total including repairs and maintenance.

I towed behind an E150 conversion van with the 5.4 for a couple years.  It was worlds better than the 4.6-equipped van that it replaced, but you still knew you had a load behind you.  That said, I took a couple cars down I75 through the Smokies to and from the Challenge as well as pulled a small enclosed trailer with a motorcycle over the same route and did a small travel trailer from Atlantaish to Daytona and back.  Plus the regular towing of the 2300 lb rallycross car to events, including out to Nebraska.  Or maybe Iowa?  I don't remember.  Anyway, even though my Excursion weighs in at a bit more than the E150 did, the 6.8 that's in it really makes a big difference.  I haven't done the long-haul tow with the Ex yet, but going to the sorta local rallycross events, there's a difference.  But....  there is a lot of utility in having the van.  Being a conversion, mine already had a bed in it.  They also tend to depreciate faster than an SUV.  A bare cargo van will give you a nice canvas to build a loft bed in the back so you get room to sleep and room to haul your crap.  I shudder to think what maintenance is like on the V10 in the van, although I guess it isn't THAT much bigger than the 5.4, really.  To get that in the van, I'm pretty sure that pushes you into E350 or E250 territory and those probably hold a little more value.  I guess what I'm saying is that while bigger is absolutely better in this case, an E150 with the 5.4 is going to be a good choice.

Oh, and while there were a ton of spark plug horror stories with the 5.4 that went in the F150 (well, all the Tritons, I guess) the van got a different head that didn't have the same problem.  I think the pickemups got the 3v head and the vans had the 2v head?  Or maybe the other way around.  I also think that the vans didn't have the phasers which I've heard could cause problems that would stun F150 owners.

In reply to captainawesome :

I prefer a SUV to a van. While I have short legs on a long trip I find the front wheel intrusion has me wanting to chew my left leg off.  
Size and power wise you've got guys who need 500 horsepower or it's underpowered and guys who can tow anything with anything and make it work.  ( I'm in that group) 
Because SUV's can be old people's last vehicle.
( you don't need to bend down to get into them ). There are some out there well cared for and driven gently by people who think a car is worn out at 100,000 miles. ( and priced accordingly ) 

Full sized SUV's are built on truck chassis.  Have both storage room and sleeping room. ( fold the seats down to make sure the floor would be flat ) 

midsized SUV's are built on midsized truck chassis ie; Colorado type truck 

small SUV's are built on van chassis. 

 

For a trailer check out what the lawn mower guys are using.  I've seen some really modestly priced trailers they are using. 

The trailer you describe (new) is $2500 and about 2000 pounds.  Add 2750 for the FRS and a few hundred more for misc other stuff and you're at 5K.  That's more than I'd tow with a Santa Fe.  Going aluminum doesn't save enough weight to get it down to Santa Fe range, IMHO.

That leaves $2500 in your budget for a tow vehicle -- to me that says GMT800 Suburban.  2500 would be ideal, but 1500 would get the job done.  They're available in that price range, although what it takes to get a $2500 Suburban back up to appropriate tow vehicle levels of reliability I don't know.  Keep in mind that if your tow vehicle fails you now have to figure out how to get both it AND the trailer home.

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

I think you hit the nail on the head with the last part. My wallet isn't endless, and I fear whatever compromise I make on purchasing a car hauler in price, will bite me hard on deferred maintenance. I have found a few trailers in the $1500 or less range that would work for my needs, so that may give me a little more buying power. Maybe in a couple months there will be even better deals out there?

I can build a tire trailer for around $350 or less plus a hitch for $125-150. If I broke down bad enough that I couldn't' drive the car home maybe rent a Uhaul pickup and trailer?

How many events do you plan on doing each year? What is cost to rent a truck and trailer for each weekend? How would that cost compare to what it costs to purchase, maintain, insure, store, etc your own? I generally hate the idea of renting anything, but it may make sense in some cases. Another benefit of renting the tow rig is not needing to worry about breakdowns. Or it may make sense to buy a trailer and rent truck or buy truck and rent trailer?

under 500 miles to an event?  i'd be looking into a tow bar for the front of the FRS, but you'd still likely want something bigger than the Santa Fe for hauling your gear and pulling the car.

90BuickCentury said:

How many events do you plan on doing each year? What is cost to rent a truck and trailer for each weekend? How would that cost compare to what it costs to purchase, maintain, insure, store, etc your own? I generally hate the idea of renting anything, but it may make sense in some cases. Another benefit of renting the tow rig is not needing to worry about breakdowns. Or it may make sense to buy a trailer and rent truck or buy truck and rent trailer?

Renting trailers generally sucks.  There isn't enough demand to support a "rent a race car trailer" business, so you fall back on U-haul.  U-haul trailers are heavy, have surge brakes, have way too much tongue weight, and worst of all are in limited supply and often not available when you go to pick it up, even if you have a "reservation".  Then the only thing you can rent from U-haul that they'll let you tow it with is a box truck -- no towing with their pickups or vans.  In fact, none of the consumer-oriented rental companies will let you tow with their trucks or SUVs, you need to go to Enterprise Commercial (not consumer) for that.

Is this track days or competition?  For track day car, I'd just drive it to every event and try not to break it.  Avoid the extra cost and hassle of trailer + truck + fuel + insurance + etc.

If its a competition vehicle and not suitable for driving on the street, that is a different story.  Seems like a tough, but doable scenario.

I'm doing TT next year, so not wheel to wheel and the car is completely drivable in it's current state to events. My initial plan has always been a tire trailer to help keep sticky tire cost down. I think it's just been in the back of my head that if an OFF happens that breaks something I can't fix quickly, I can put it on a trailer and drag it home. Flat tow isn't something I want to mess with, and a car dolly won't work for clearance issues. Trailer and tow pig become a rabbit hole, but could be nice insurance in case something happens.

My thought by the nicest $1500 trailer that will fit your car, then take the remaining $3500 and by the best SUV or van you can find that you can also camp in.

captainawesome said:

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

I think you hit the nail on the head with the last part. My wallet isn't endless, and I fear whatever compromise I make on purchasing a car hauler in price, will bite me hard on deferred maintenance. I have found a few trailers in the $1500 or less range that would work for my needs, so that may give me a little more buying power. Maybe in a couple months there will be even better deals out there?

 

I can build a tire trailer for around $350 or less plus a hitch for $125-150. If I broke down bad enough that I couldn't' drive the car home maybe rent a Uhaul pickup and trailer?

I had so much success with welding up my own trailers I went into the trailer building business.  Made my own fiberglass molds to enclose trailers. Built 10 before I saw it would be impossible for me to turn a profit. Closed the business kept the equipment and molds. 
  If you buy odd lots steel or aluminum you can cut costs dramatically.   If I were building a trailer for that car my cost would be at or under $1000 and I could keep the weight way down.  You'd need to give up some perceptions about trailers and build to requirements not to desires. 
 

Buy the SUV or Van use it to bring home the stuff to make your trailer.  

captainawesome said:

In reply to Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) :

What gen F250 you got and what engine config? I've been eyeballing those as well. My uncle had a fleet of Powerstroke extended cab 4x4s but they always seemed to have trans issues

03 6.0 ps with the auto, single cab, long bed 2wd 354k and on its 6th oem egr and had injectors and oil pump before I bought it. 

Well I got the trailer part sorted for now. I was asking a buddy what the dimensions of his trailer was, and explained I was looking for one similar. He told me to just borrow his since it was only used 3 times this year, one of which was because of a car that I told him about. I insisted on taking care of any tire and bearing maintenance. He said that would work. I believe it also needs the e-brakes hooked back up. I still plan to buy my own trailer at some point later in the year, but this will be super helpful.

So that's going to free up that part of my budget for now. I think I'm still going to try to keep my vehicle purchase around $3500 if possible so I have money left for any possible repairs or maintenance. The Excursion and Suburban are added to my list. There's surprisingly quite a few Suburbans that look decent for that kind of money so if the stock of nice vans is low I know there's other options.

I would be looking hard at Sequoias also.  Might come across one in that price range, although they seem to start around $5k.

You can also get Titans and Armadas slightly below 5k.