Challenge Rally Car?

Read the latest challenge issue. I want in!

So I'm thinking of building a challenge rally car. For challenge, most likely rallyx (no cage and race seats) but would want to build to rally specs. The biggest hurdle I can see is coming up with a suspension that can handle rally on a challenge budget.

For a car, I'm thinking RWD. Right or wrong I buy into what that guy on Special Stage (name rhymes with a pork product) used to say about RWD being cheaper and easier (trannys, final drives, etc). He liked Volvos, I'm not picky.

So what do you guys think? What platform do you think would work well? What about the budget suspenders? Per, any thoughts on doing rally cheap you could share that's not in the article archive?

That's what I built this year with a 323 GTX.

Unfortunately, the car didn't make it.

Remember, the "rally" thing is just a look. You will not be rallying, you will be running on asphalt.

I had rally lights and brush guard, lights on top, paint scheme, adjustable suspension, and tarmac tires. Intended to go through the concourse with the car jacked up for the look, but lowered back down for autoX. For the drags, I would have adjusted them with the car leaning forward to counteract the weight jacking on take-off.

The 323 GTX is AWD.

The best cheap rally suspension is stock, if you ask me.

Just to clarify, the point is to make a stage rally car (less cage, safety, and seats) for challenge money.

Tom Heath wrote: The best cheap rally suspension is stock, if you ask me.

Ditto. If you're trying to do it on the cheap, a stock suspension in good shape will be just fine. We've beat the crap out of the suspension on our Impreza LeMons/Rallycross car and it's held up no problem. Of course stage rally will be harder on components, so you may have to replace stuff more often (blown struts, etc.) but junkyard parts are dirt cheap (pardon the pun)...you could buy several spare suspension corners for the price of one set of decent aftermarket parts.

Bryce

Unless you have a few thousand acres of land at your disposal, I don't think you'll be entering any stage rallies without safety equipment. I'm a pretty reckless guy, but there is no way you'd get me to do a high speed stage rally without a cage or safety equipment. I don't think there is an organization in the world that would let you enter either. Stage rally is serious business. (and fun) It is also damn dangerous, maybe more so than any other form of 4-wheeled motorsport.

Now if you are going for the stage rally "look" for a rallycross, or street car, that is a different ball of wax. Or are you talking about a stage rally car without the safety equip and cage included in the budget? Or are you talking about a rallycross car built on a budget that eventually will be turned into a stage rally car? I'm confused.

A rental car is the best rallycross car!

For cheapo rallyx suspension, I like stock springs, basic performance shocks (I'm running Tokico blues right now) and all new firmer bushings (don't forget wheelbearings/balljoints/tie rod ends/etc as needed.) The bang-for-the-buck is tough to beat, ride height/clearance is decent, and response and feedback is adequate if you put money into worn parts as needed depending on the condition of your car. The main thing you need is plenty of wheel travel and good control/damping. Ultra-stiff springs aren't really necessary for rallycross on a budget.

Depending on what vehicle you end up getting, there may be potential for slightly stiffer stock springs in the junkyard...for example, grabbing wagon rear springs for a coupe/sedan, or on some cars, performance model springs on your economy model, or V6 model front springs on a 4-cylinder car. It takes a bit of research and/or measuring to find out if there actually is a difference or not, but it can pay dividends.

My buddy and I put springs from some bigger/newer Audi (90? 100?) on his 4000 Quattro and had good result in rallycross. I've found that Corolla GT-S stock springs are superior to Corolla SR5 stock springs on my car, and another buddy put springs from some later Jetta on his first-gen Rabbit GTI for rallycross. In each case, the springs were stiffer without being any shorter, and worked well on the lightweight cars they ended up on.

I think a MK2 volkswagen would be the easiest car to set up the suspension for rally use cheaply. There are tons of more expensive rally parts for them also.

NBS2005 wrote: Read the latest challenge issue. I want in! So I'm thinking of building a challenge rally car. For challenge, most likely rallyx (no cage and race seats) but would want to build to rally specs. The biggest hurdle I can see is coming up with a suspension that can handle rally on a challenge budget. For a car, I'm thinking RWD. Right or wrong I buy into what that guy on Special Stage (name rhymes with a pork product) used to say about RWD being cheaper and easier (trannys, final drives, etc). He liked Volvos, I'm not picky. So what do you guys think? What platform do you think would work well? What about the budget suspenders? Per, any thoughts on doing rally cheap you could share that's not in the article archive?

Trust me, there is not a snowball's chance in hell you could make even an imaginary rally car for under $2k. Even a cheap Bilstein setup (cheap as in inexpensive) will still run you over $500 alone. So you have your $500 car, plus your $500 suspension that is valved totally wrong for auto-x and asphalt, and you have $1000 left to make the car run faster then 16's in the 1/4 mile.

Having said that, a turbo volvo would be POIFECT to start with. You could at least do all of the stuff that applies to any car you want to be fast, then go ahead and later rally it. Volvo 740 turbos are dirt cheap. Crank the boost, do some computer work, get it into the 13's. Done deal.

Edit- I'm not trying to be harsh or anything. I've tried what you want to do (for the most part). Rallying on the cheap takes a dedications + skills that literally the best of the best GRM challenge guys posess. For us mere mortals, it is very hard to end up with a reliable car thats actually rally worthy. I also understand that you aren't making the car "stage rally worthy" AND bringing it to the challenge, and like I said by all means do the stuff you would do to any car!

Hah-I just made an imaginary rally car for free!

Hmmm...I wouldn't be so sure. I have a caged RWD Corolla (AE86) rally car with some body damage I have been thinking about unloading for Challenge-friendly pricing. It has an SCCA logbook, the cage would new door bars to be current for rally. Basically it needs a few parts but mostly a hell of a lot of elbow grease (more than I am willing to provide) hence the thoughts of selling. It is nowhere near concours-ready at the moment. You aren't anwhere near Oregon by any chance, are you?

The great news with rally cars is that for every one out there currently competing, there are ten mostly-finished or in need of repair sitting in a garage somewhere with an owner coming to the realization that he/she isn't going to get it done. You can pick up someone else's rally project for WAY less than you could build it.

Keep an eye peeled for these types of cars and you never know what might pop up!

I have a caged RWD Corolla (AE86) rally car with some body damage I have been thinking about unloading for Challenge-friendly pricing. It has an SCCA logbook, the cage would new door bars to be current for rally.

Unless the pricing is VERY challenge friendly (we are talking sub $1k) getting the door bars, plus fixing the body damage (which you don't specify, so I take that to be it ain't just a fender), then adding some performance parts to it will get you a slow challenge car. And a car that still isn't stage rally worthy. I'm just not getting the guys hopes up. In the end, it will cost him minimal outlay (with a car that is already built) ~$4k to get to an event... and thats JUST the car. There really isn't ANYWAY around it unless you are given a perfectly fine rally car for free, or can do all of your own labour for free and need nobody to do anything for you.

$1000. http://www.rallyclassified.com/classified.php/listing/1817

Sell off the spares (rally computer, intercom, driving suit, spare wheels on a $1000 car!), drop in a junkyard 2.2 turbo motor, crank the boost and you may have a decent Challenge car (in the view of a guy who's never been to the Challenge).

This one's sold, but it had potential as well. I know there are lots of interesting Toyota interchange options, and RWD FTW!

http://www.rallyclassified.com/classified.php/listing/1441

There is always a way to do stuff cheap enough for the challenge.

NBS2005 wrote: Just to clarify, the point is to make a stage rally car (less cage, safety, and seats) for challenge money.

I guess I'm still confused. You can't make a stage rally car without safety (?), cage, and seats...as in, there is no organization that would let you do it. So do you mean you want to make a rally themed $2009 GRM challenge car? Or a rallycross car for about two grand? A sweep vehicle to run on rally stages for about two grand? I'm lost, and I don't think I'm alone.

Bryce

FWIW, I bought a rally car back in '03 for $2k(with trailer, spares & 2nd chassis)and seriously thought about bringing it to the Challenge...but it would have failed miserably in every category.

It was a '77 Colt, and although I haven't see anything else out there, I haven't looked for several years either.

MrJoshua wrote: There is always a way to do stuff cheap enough for the challenge.

Fuggin'a. Ye ov little faith:

Car: Spend no more than $500 (preferably $200 or $300.) 2 $250 cars can usually make one running one. Try to steer clear of un-common stuff, as you'll be less likely to find multiple cars. Old hondas seem to work pretty well for us. If you're only $250 in, you should be able to sell @ least $100 worth of E36 M3, and even with scrap prices low, recoup $100 at the squisher (hint, pilfered motors, bed frames, etc, are heavy, and will fit in the car you plan to scrap.)

Suspension: Troll craigslist for cheap coilovers/springs/shocks. If nothing pops up in a couple months, the "ebay motorcycle shock" thing seems to be pretty popular, and stankin' cheap. We're considering this setup on this year's car.

If all else fails (here we go again,) go to junkyard, find big-ass heavy vehicle (think big vans,) with springs sort of close to the same diameter as the stock ones on your challenger. 2 bigass chevy van springs cut in half (they're like 18 berkeleying inches long) equals 4 springs for your toyota/honda/neon/whatever. 2 springs should be 15 bucks or so.

Take the stock shocks to your favorite local vato-zone, where you know all the guys behind the counter and occassionally bring them a 12 pack. Pick through their boxes of truck shocks until you find something similar to yours. Adjustability shmustability, they're meant to handle big ass beefy springs on big ass heavy vehicles. These should run you no more than $50.00

Engine performance: A $100 nitrous kit is easy to install, and goes a long way toward significantly lowering drag times.

Cage: Wait until after the challenge to put the cage in. Duh.

Other safety equipment: Doesn't count toward the budget.

Rustoleum paint: $50.

Total budget spent: $215. This leaves $1,785 for the best wheel/tire combination the challenge has ever seen.

Dew eet.

Nashco wrote:

NBS2005 wrote: Just to clarify, the point is to make a stage rally car (less cage, safety, and seats) for challenge money.

I guess I'm still confused. You can't make a stage rally car without safety (?), cage, and seats...as in, there is no organization that would let you do it. So do you mean you want to make a rally themed $2009 GRM challenge car? Or a rallycross car for about two grand? A sweep vehicle to run on rally stages for about two grand? I'm lost, and I don't think I'm alone. Bryce

The idea is to do a stage rally car (obviously not a top runner, a good midpacker that finishes), just the CAR part for challenge money and bring it to challenge for fun. The next step is to, as inexpensively as possible, cage it and add safety equipment to get it a real log book. Yes the total budget will look more like 2x Challenge.

From what I found in 5 minutes on RallyClassified, it wouldn't be hard. Caged, logbooked rally cars can be bought for $1k.

Do you have to be registered on RallyClassifieds to see pictures?

No, you just can't post them to forums apparently. Follow the linkies.

I did, and then I tried searching around on the website and I couldn't see any of the listing.

Well, I'm not registered so I know it's not required

http://www.rallyclassified.com/index.php/cat_id/10 is the listing for North American cars.

Ad's on rally classified do not show in firefox..

but work in IE.. atleast on my puter.

Keith wrote: From what I found in 5 minutes on RallyClassified, it wouldn't be hard. Caged, logbooked rally cars can be bought for $1k.

From the charger ad:

It runs, but the cage is bolt in and would need to be replaced to be rally legal.

From the celica ad:

Street Legal: No Cage Installed: Yes Race Ready: No Log Book: Unknown

So while the charger is logbooked, it doesn't (sound) like it has an RA (and I would assume NASA) legal cage. The celica states it isn't even street legal, which makes me curious. The logbook is also "unknown", so chances are there is not one, or the old one was lost. And also in the highly questionable category would be the cage in the celica.

http://www.specialstage.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/1135/cat/13 http://www.specialstage.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/820/cat/13 http://www.rallyclassified.com/classified.php/listing/817 http://www.rallyclassified.com/classified.php/listing/1495

Here are some other ads, but again they don't really meet the criteria set out. I'll say it again: start with a car that you WANT to build into a challenge car. Put your blood, sweat, and tears into it (with a mind towards modifications that can be carried through to rallying). All of the cars I even listed need serious work (cages out of date, rolled, not running, lots of rust etc).

This is the only car that (IMO) would be worth investing money into... AND its the only one out of all the ones posted so far still for sale:

http://www.specialstage.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/1289/cat/13

If the westside (or whatever they call themselves) boys can make a colt run stupid fast, can't be that much harder to swap a turbo motor into this talon and go nuts!