So if a car that would have no issues competing gets built in the style of say a 60's gasser and gets taller, does it have to get measured for height and track or can it rest on it's previously established laurels?
So if a car that would have no issues competing gets built in the style of say a 60's gasser and gets taller, does it have to get measured for height and track or can it rest on it's previously established laurels?
In reply to Andy Neuman :
Andy, What would the HIGHER number , Tax DeDuct, Scrap price, FMV. ? If it's Tax's I'd be in a jam, Being Retired,
In reply to oldopelguy :
Would the Fun on the Straight's overpower the Fear and terror, getting through the corners.
GTXVette said:In reply to Andy Neuman :
Andy, What would the HIGHER number , Tax DeDuct, Scrap price, FMV. ? If it's Tax's I'd be in a jam, Being Retired,
Tax deduction would be $500, I’m sure I could pull FMV for parts off of it to be higher. Scrap is probably $250.
Hey there eveyone,
Planning to do $2018.
I bought a '91 miata before I even had the thought to do the challenge for $2700 with hardtop and a trunk full of spares. Ok, over the limit.
I sold the hardtop and some latch hardware that came with the car for $950. That gets us to $1750 and under the limit.
I have also sold some of the spares off, and plan to sell what else I can. I have an honest $1450 in the car right now- I haven't even changed the oil or registered the car...hah. I know the purchase price has to be less than $2018 but the hardtops trade at what I sold it for all the time.
What do the judges say? Can I start at $1750 as my "purchase price" and deduct whatever I wind up getting out of the spares package? Should I incur a penalty? Do I need to light a Nissan leaf on fire as penance?
Thanks for the time.
Justin Rest
In reply to mtbgael :
You know the head judge of the Challenge Supreme Court drives a Leaf right?
Even better! I work for Nissan so it was the first thing to come to mind.
In reply to mtbgael :
I'll let Tom respond, but I don't think it's gonna work.
I know this is gonna sound stupid, but experienced Challenge participants would have bought that differently. 2 different receipts, $1700 for the car, and $1000 for the hardtop and hardware. THEN it would be legal.
I understand this sounds like budget shenanigans, and you are probably right. I'm just saying...
I am not sure but If you pay 10,000 for a car and sell off 8,000 in stuff you have a 2,000 dollar Car, Under the limit,
I don't think Buy in Counts that way. It's what do you Have in it at the Starting Line.
In a way the Fiero I have could be at 0 in a Hurry, But I like the stuff I COULD sell so I won't.
Sounds Like you are DE Constructing a car where most are Constructing a Car
I liked the car, so I bought the car. THEN I thought oh! GRM! If it won't work it won't work, I just want to know so I can move on or start planning.
Find the old seller and get a new receipt?
Really, it's a miata, we all know that a the prices are reasonable and mtbgael could have bought the car and the hard top "separately" if they had thought about it at the time. I don't see why they can't call the original purchase price of the miata $1750. It doesn't seem like they're trying to sneak in expensive cheats, it seems like they just want to participate.
Also, my own challenge related question:
How do we count Dyno time in budget?
I would argue that if you are tuning yourself, and not having the Dyno operator tune, dyno, tune, dyno, then the dyno is a tool that you are renting, shouldn't count towards budget right? Plus, who doesn't want to know the numbers their car is pushing?
In reply to AWSX1686 :
If you are paying a shop to do work, it goes in the budget.
AWSX1686 said:Find the old seller and get a new receipt?
Really, it's a miata, we all know that a the prices are reasonable and mtbgael could have bought the car and the hard top "separately" if they had thought about it at the time. I don't see why they can't call the original purchase price of the miata $1750. It doesn't seem like they're trying to sneak in expensive cheats, it seems like they just want to participate.
I agree, but it's a staff call.
Tom?
AngryCorvair said:In reply to AWSX1686 :
If you are paying a shop to do work, it goes in the budget.
But is running a Dyno actually work if they are ONLY running the machine to see numbers and you do any tuning yourself?
(Yes, also up to staff on this, just thinking out loud more.)
SVreX said:I agree, but it's a staff call.
Tom?
Indeed, staff word is final, just wanted to put my input in the interest of encouraging challenge participation.
re: Dyno
It's still a shop. But if you buy or build your own...
https://jalopnik.com/5807502/how-to-build-your-own-dyno-for-just-2000/
But you need to be safe...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FEcdhPb6a8
I think these would also qualify as "tools"
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/do-inexpensive-performance-meters-work-feature
http://www.auterraweb.com/scangauge.html
Remember, even laptops (not used while driving the event) are now tools...
In reply to AWSX1686 :
Again, I agree.
I would call that a "Pre-approved Exception", as opposed to an interpretation of the rules.
As a judge last year, I know there were cars which had been preapproved by the staff to be exceptions to some of the rules.
I don't think it is a good idea to use it as a general interpretation just to try to increase participation, because it is clearly outside of the written rules. It's the start of a very long slippery slope (as GTXVette pointed out).
The Challenge game includes a great deal of care in how things are budgeted.
In reply to SVreX :
I think we're on the same page.
Yeah, about that dyno time thing... how is that any different than paying entry fees at auto-x events or dragways to do testing and tuning? In all of those cases, you're paying a fee to access time where they use their equipment to measure your performance. IMHO, if dyno time counts, then so should every auto-x and dragway entry fee. But to cite the thread mantra, "it's a staff call."
Sorry all, I've been busy but will answer all of these soon.
And I'll let you in on a little in-house secret project: An expanded FAQ section in the Challenge rules, built from this thread. That will make answers much easier to find.
A dyno is a tool, and renting it is no different from renting a screwdriver to install your nitrous. Not included in budget.
Core charges count in your budget if you have to pay them. Period.
Example A: Stampie needs a shift knob because he's starting with a car with no knob present at all. He buys one for $10 plus a $10 core charge. His net budget impact is -$20.
Example B: Patrick needs a shift knob because he bought a car with a broken knob. He buys one for $10 plus a $10 core charge, which is refunded once he turns in his old knob. He includes both receipts, and his net budget impact is -$10.
Is core charge 'charged' to recoup limits? (Sounds like answer is no)
Edited my post for less confusion.
mtbgael said:Hey there eveyone,
Planning to do $2018.
I bought a '91 miata before I even had the thought to do the challenge for $2700 with hardtop and a trunk full of spares. Ok, over the limit.
I sold the hardtop and some latch hardware that came with the car for $950. That gets us to $1750 and under the limit.
I have also sold some of the spares off, and plan to sell what else I can. I have an honest $1450 in the car right now- I haven't even changed the oil or registered the car...hah. I know the purchase price has to be less than $2018 but the hardtops trade at what I sold it for all the time.
What do the judges say? Can I start at $1750 as my "purchase price" and deduct whatever I wind up getting out of the spares package? Should I incur a penalty? Do I need to light a Nissan leaf on fire as penance?
Thanks for the time.
Justin Rest
Sorry, but this is specifically not allowed in the current rules. You'll need to rethink the receipts, or start with a different car. Sorry!
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