Challenge Supreme Court (Questions Answered Here!)

MrJoshua said:

So now if we buy a pack of zip ties we have to sell the remaining ones we don't use? 

Call them 'consumable'? There was a note about how you don't have to count the whole spool of welding wire if you don't use the whole spool.

I shouldn't really associate the 2. Zip ties probably don't need to be  counted (as Robbie noted)

But the "Zip Tie Rule" is what was cited in the past for the budget worthiness of things like the Sucker Vette, and that appears to be prohibited in the current rule set. 

(BTW, the Sucker Vette example is identical to what Duster is asking about)

Tom may need to rule on zip ties. It's a non-issue as far as I am concerned. 

But I think he has already been pretty clear on purchases as lots:

GRM Challenge rules FAQ said:

 

Q: How do I determine the price of parts I got as a lot or an all-you-can-carry sale?

A: This is treated as a “parts car” so to speak, the total price of the lot is what it will cost your budget. You may then sell parts from that total lot or group of parts with receipt until you hit the recoup limit.

 

 

Q: If I was forced to purchase a fixed lot of parts from a seller but only need to use a few, what is the best way to record the value of the used parts? What will they cost if the original price was for the lot?

A: The best way to do this is purchasing the lot with two receipts and determining what the seller wanted for only the parts you are using, at the time of sale, or by FMV out of the lot so long as you have an itemized receipt for parts used.

Just saying ...

In reply to Stampie :

Yep. But that's not what Duster asked. 

Just saying... 

In reply to SVreX :

He was forced to buy a fixed lot of used shocks. Just saying back to ya ...

In reply to Stampie :

But he only got 1 receipt at the time of sale. 

Back atcha. 

(and I have no idea what "FORCED to purchase..." means...) lol!!

Homogeneous lots can be pro-rated (like paint, zip ties, 10 identical wheels, etc).

Heterogeneous lots must be treated like a parts car. 

That begs the question: which are those shocks? I’d argue that they are homogenous unless any are standout brand names. A mixed box of Monroes and Gabriels would be all the same in my mind, but a box of Gabriels and Konis would not. 

Does that work? I think that accomplishes the goal without drastically changing anything. 

In reply to Tom Suddard :

Bilsteiens, agx, and tokiko. All performance, so argue that all are homogeneous. 

Clarifications sure can get complicated!  

In reply to Tom Suddard :

Tom, I'm not trying to argue with you, but I am honestly confused. 

Nothing is homogenous in a lot of used mechanical parts. If there was a pallet full of blower fans, ANY of us would choose the "best one" to keep. That implies some have greater value than others. It might be the brand, the specs, the amount of wear, or some other factor, but they are not equal. 

FMV I understand. Discounts for bulk purchases I understand. I don't understand homogenous lots. 

I am completely comfortable with saying the rules used to be one thing, but now they have changed. But this seems like an overly complicated way to try to make the past rules and interpretations jive with the current ones. 

Rant off. I will play by your decision (assuming I understand it).

I really appreciate the efforts you put into this. It's just pretty confusing at this end sometimes. 

After Paul gets done arguing I have another question. 

Those shocks are not a single lot, treat them like a parts car or FMV what you use. I'm letting my ruling stand.

Stampie, your turn.

It's an editorial event. The integrity of the event is dependent on the integrity of the participants. You can count the individual pieces and prorate based on the cost of the bulk, or you can sufficiently add enough miscellaneous dollars to cover minor items like zip-ties. In the end you have to live with your decisions. And you will be judged by the staff and your fellow participants.  More rules ruins the fun. Cheating ruins the fun. Think about it guys.  

wheels777 said:

It's an editorial event. The integrity of the event is dependent on the integrity of the participants. You can count the individual pieces and prorate based on the cost of the bulk, or you can sufficiently add enough miscellaneous dollars to cover minor items like zip-ties. In the end you have to live with your decisions. And you will be judged by the staff and your fellow participants.  More rules ruins the fun. Cheating ruins the fun. Think about it guys.  

Well put.

Two questions actually:

Why isn't this thread stickied anymore?

Second question:

It came up in a build thread about recope on shipping cost for a parts vehicle. Say you paid $300 for the vehicle but shipping was $300 on it. Are you allowed to recope $600 or are you limited to the $300 you paid for the vehicle. Asking for my fellow competitor of course as I'm sure it in no way affects me. 

In reply to Stampie :

why recoup? the shipping (of the car) is not in budget so why would you be able to recoup something you didnt pay for? Just like selling parts off your free car, it makes beer money but not budget.

In reply to Robbie :

Shipping of your hooptie isn't in budget but shipping on a parts car is. Unless Tom would like to exempt that also. 

Stampie said:

Two questions actually:

Why isn't this thread stickied anymore?

Some folks who enjoyed the event in the past are losing interest in the event because many of the questions are anal. 

Worse yet, newbies are being discouraged from attending.  Why, because folk are trying to use some ridiculous means of accounting to try to creatively squeeze an extra $20-50-100 dollars into their budget.

To all you newbies, I was scared to join in the first event I attended.  Why?  Because I was concerned that I didn't account for something.  I showed up years ago and realized I had been overly concerned and it was not necessary. Please don't worry.   Guys who cheat will be miserable.  Guys who don't have tons of fun.  Account for everything - identify the exempt items.  Come down to the event.  Enjoy the adventure and chaos.  It's worth the trip. 

In reply to wheels777 :

Fair enough on all counts. And as a newcomer, i dont want to be the reason anyone leaves the challenge or the forum. Im just trying to make sure i understand things and have an honest and legal car.

Tom: got it. Thank you for the clarification. 

Recoup would be $600 in that case, Stampie. Why? Because "You may never recoup more than a part or car’s purchase price" and "Shipping counts towards parts prices."

wheels777 said:

It's an editorial event. The integrity of the event is dependent on the integrity of the participants. You can count the individual pieces and prorate based on the cost of the bulk, or you can sufficiently add enough miscellaneous dollars to cover minor items like zip-ties. In the end you have to live with your decisions. And you will be judged by the staff and your fellow participants.  More rules ruins the fun. Cheating ruins the fun. Think about it guys.  

I completely agree 100%. 

My struggle is that my own personal integrity and the integrity of the event are sometimes tied up in trying to help other people understand what it means when I say I built a race car for $2000. 

- It used to mean I spent $2000. 

- Then it meant I spent $2000, but I also had unlimited trading

- Then it meant I spent $2000, had unlimited trading, and could also recoup $1000. 

- Then it meant I spent $2000, had unlimited trading, could recoup $1000, and got a free set of tires. 

- Then it meant I spent $2000, had unlimited trading, could recoup $1000, got a free set of tires, and various Free brake parts and safety gear. 

- Now, I have to explain something about "homogenous lots". 

Andrew, you and I may understand it, but the vast majority of people I talk with do not. They do not see integrity in the statement "I built a race car for $2000".  I am excited by it being an editorial event- there is probably no one that has used that phrase more than me.  But that doesn't make it easy to swallow by many people. (Including some forum members)

I am not here to argue. I am here to understand, because I see myself as a salesman for the event. I need to have some idea of what I am selling. To be honest, sometimes I do not. 

Carry on, folks. Sorry for the distraction. 

I explain it as "they start with $2018 and use it as creatively as possible within the rules" and pretty much anyone who has ever done any racing asks me for the rule book at that point. 

Dusterbd13 said:

In reply to wheels777 :

Fair enough on all counts. And as a newcomer, i dont want to be the reason anyone leaves the challenge or the forum. Im just trying to make sure i understand things and have an honest and legal car.

Tom: got it. Thank you for the clarification. 

Differing scales and differing weights are unjust. Use a standard you would expect a competitor to use and a standard you can feel good about.